welcome to yesterday... those silver hubs were whack!

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Just happened to me last week. Luckily I was not on it and just moving to start a trainer ride. There was no weight on it and all of a sudden I heard this loud pop. It was strange as hell luckily SRAM is making good on it. Very interesting timing though.

Here is what it looked like.

2 of my friends had the very same issue...

glad I sold those :D

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

This will be fun.

Pretty sure that's the hub on my 808s. If remedy is to replace the hub, who covers the cost to rebuild the wheel? Can't find this on the recall notice or Sram/Zipp websites.

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I ride Felt.

I have the black hub on my Zipp 101s from 2012. Is it part of the recall?

that is not the recalled version of the 88, that looks like second gen, like on the 2012 fc 808s, ie flange cover is much smaller than the recalled version

Anyone know if they cover the removal of the old hub and installation of the new hub?

Checked my wheels. Front 808 has the older? hub with carbon fiber flange cover. Rear 808 has the same hub with Z on the flange. Guess I need to contact Zipp and confirm whether this purely front hub, or if it's rear hubs too.

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I ride Felt.

Interesting. I had this happen to the rear, drive-side flange of 2013 Zipp 303's with the black hubs a 1/2 mile after leaving a rest stop out on a t-shirt ride with some friends. Decided to rebuild front and rear wheels with DT Swiss 240s straight pull hubs resulting in a stronger, and slightly lighter wheelset and seeing this, now thinking I need to do the same with the wife's 303 wheelset.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This cannot be. In the last thread about Zipp hub quality, everyone dismissed Zipp's long history of shitty hubs. Everything is always fixed with the latest revision--well, until that revision becomes the old revision because the new revision fixes problems.

That makes it all the more scary. My bad though...it looked the same to me but it is on 2012 FC 404 there Eagle eye. :-) Either way though SRAM/Zipp made it right with me just glad I was not actually riding it.

probably the prelude to the next.................. :)

I need to check mine at home

These are the old hubs, from 2008-2010.

exactly... only took them what?!?! 5 years for the recall??!?!

if u google the web u can read about the issue with their hubs in multiple forums...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Looking at the zipp website the 88 is used on the front only.

I have a Felt Special edition 808 - right from around that time. Have to check it. thanks for posting.

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Yikes, just called and left a message for my LBS, I have those hubs.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

One example of why I'm a big fan of hand built wheels. I'm a little POed Zipp stopped selling rims to consumers like Enve still does. You can still get custom Zipps from some builders like Wheelbuilder.com. My first Zipp was a dimpled 404 laced to a White Industries hub with silver spokes...very flashy!

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

and apparently used on more recent model up to 2012... Just called re: my 2011/2012 vintage 303 tubular, and the rep confirmed it.

Funny enough i haven't trusted this wheel for a while as there was a very faint noise coming from the front hub. Probably unrelated, but at least i get to solve that issue as well.

Only downside is that i have to pry the damn tubular off of the tire...

anyone know what hubs were on the first gen FC clinchers? these had silver hubs.

SRAM is requesting you have your LBS handle the warranty. They will speak with LBS and then if applicable for the recall, handle the repair by having the wheel shipped to SRAM who replaces the hub, and respokes rebuilds it in the factory and ships it back to LBS. I'm not sure if your LBS needs to be a ZIPP dealer or not. Fortunately for me my hybrid (2011ish) 404 appears to have a newer design without the logo.

At least in terms of yaw and drag #'s everything is OK until a failure happens.

I have a few Zipps. Thanks for the post.

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"You almost had me? You never had me - you never had your [bike]... Granny shiftin' not double [tappin]' like you should. You're lucky that hundred shot of [caffeine] didn't blow the welds on the [chainstays]! You almost had me?"

#HILANDON

I wonder whether that goes for international customers too.

This http://www.zipp.com/..._Consumer_Notice.pdf is pretty useful for helping identify what's being recalled.

I didn't ride the 8knot8 this year in favour of a C50 just because it felt better (braking, corners). Obviously a good thing, here's mine. Hope the recall is good for Canada!

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
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Feels good to be safe for once. No Z, updated version. Safe right?



WARRANTY PHOTO:

looks like I "qualify" for the recall.

Dropped mine off at the LBS this morning, they confirmed it's a 'guilty' hub and is sending it off. No idea how long the turn around will be.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

Sram tech guy today said they won't have the wheels longer than 3 days... at current. .. said they are not expecting a significant backlog and can ramp up the repairs to as needed. Just relaying what I was told. Tech I talked with was very knowledgeable about this recall.

Cool, thanks for the info.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

My older 808 front has the dimples on the hub and carbon at the ends. So I guess it is okay since it maybe too old?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

This is the recall affected hub. If you have the smaller aluminum lock ring without the Z on it or carbon one then no need to worry.

At least they have been recalled.

Could you say the same for wheels from other unbranded manufacturers?

I have a second generation hub but the flange rings are cracked also, Zipp said I would have to buy the flanges myself and have the LBS install them since it requires releasing spoke tension to install then re-tension said spokes. He said it was a fluke and that I shouldn't use the wheel until the maintenance is completed on the hub. Feel like I'm getting hosed here!!!

Im in the same boat with a broken spoke retainer ring on a 2nd gen (non-recalled) hub. Waiting on options from the dealer, since I am not the original owner. I actually used the wheel with the missing spoke retainer on one side for a few races without any problems, but obviously thats a little risky.

Raced the wheel a couple of weekends ago, when "ignorance was bliss" but I know now so I would probably have to hypnotize myself to get around not thinking of catastrophic failure at high speed.
I did ask the Zipp rep if there was anything I should or shouldn't do once the rings are replaced, he had no info on that subject. You have to wonder if the first set failed then why wouldn't a second set if the same rings are used again.

The info he probably had was replace the hub with a competitors. I'm under 140lbs and rode on pretty smooth roads, yet had 2 of these crack. Most likely my last Zipp purchase.

Looks like it's international. Just brought mine to the LBS yesterday after he called sram. Just curious what they replace the superior zedtech hub with. Seems like downgrading comparing the price tags.

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-shoki

Hi all

Last week Zipp/SRAM recalled front wheels with 88 hubs manufactured between 2008-2010. They were due to replace hubs and spokes. However they have called me today to say my 303 was unsafe and they would replace my wheels with the Zipp 60s. They highlighted that the carbon was failing around some of the spoke holes and confirmed that it is not caused by me. Despite being out of warranty SRAM are replacing it out of "goodwill". My issue is that a) I don't see how a wheel with less than 2000km should be failing unless there is a manufacturing defect and b) the zipp 60s have a heavier and entry level hub made in Taiwan. I have argued that they are offering me an inferior wheelset and are also refusing to return my 303. Not very happy at all.

Has anyone else experienced similar issues and did they get a better resolution that merely being forced to accept the 60? Thanks

Mine was sent in about a week ago. I guess I'll find out in another week or so.

Wouldn't the Zipp 30 be the replacement for the 303? I guess it's cheaper for them to give a whole new wheel than rebuild the old ones. The problem is they don't offer any 303/404 etc anymore with an aluminum brake surface. But yeah, I would want an 88 hub over the 122.... Did you ask them to build up a 60 or 30 with an 88 hub?

The zipp 30 is an all aluminium wheel which replaced the 101 and very cheap. Unfortunately they have stopped making the carbon rim with aluminium braking surface other than the 60s but by demoted these to an entry level wheelset. The only direct replacement for a 303 is really a 303 but with the carbon clincher.

I'd be interested to hear what they say when they come back on your wheels.

Just got the call from my bike shop. My wheel is back. New 88 hub, new spokes and my original rim. When the bike shop called I asked them about their original conversation with Zipp and they told me that Zipp had said they replace the hub and spokes for free and if the rim is damaged they just charge a nominal fee for a replacement rim.

Maybe it's customer service roulette, although my rim was in very good shape (I did remove the Zipp stickers btw). While it had approximately 10K miles on it, the brake surface was not worn at all and there were no cracks. With the new hub and spokes it is like new. I would not have been happy if they tried to do the 60 switch on me.

Just got it back. Looks to me like a V9 88 in silver. New spokes, original spoke nipples.

I got my 808 back today, same hub. My LBS also said if the brake track was overly worn Zipp wouldn't replace the recalled hub. They're race wheels, who uses brakes when racing!

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

What was the total turn around time from shipping it off to getting it back?

Mine took about 2.5 weeks.

Just under 2 weeks for me.

dead on two weeks.

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The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody

Two weeks over here in Europe. Replaced the silver zedtech hub with a new silver v9, new nipples and spokes. Kinda downgrade wheelsetwise but safety first.

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-shoki

A few days under 2 weeks turn around on mine actually. Its just waiting to be picked up at the LBS.

for those with tubulars, did you need to remove the tire before sending back the wheel?

I had clinchers and didn't remove my tire sending it in.

Yes, we even called from the shop to make sure again. They just want the wheel, need it without anything to get true again after hub change.

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-shoki

just got a call from my LBS that my wheel is back from Zipp. Zipp gave the shop a credit for shipping the wheel and also for re-installing the tubular. took 2 weeks.

Phew, haven't been home to check yet, but from the Zipp PDF document they issued, it looks like my front hub is the unaffected new version with the 'aero' cinch nut.

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29 years and counting

I finally was able to get over to the bike shop to pick up my wheel and the owner opened the box with me to find a new 303 carbon clincher in there. I had sent in a 2010 404. Not sure how I should feel about this because I know the 303 is newer, however I don't know whether or not its faster than my 404. In any event, they didn't contact me or the bike shop to inform us of anything wrong with my 404 or that they would be replacing it. Any thoughts/ideas?

got it; thanks

got a heat gun last year to do some soldering, and i hear that the heat really helps with tire removal; will give it a try

come to think of it, i stopped riding that front wheel some time last summer when i heard a very slight noise from the front hub; perhaps this will take care of that for once and for all

303 firecrest definitely faster than the old 404 clincher.

rejoice!

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Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
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Thanks. That is what I was looking for. It looks way cooler - good to know its faster too!

I have the same older hub with the carbon covers on my 808 front wheel which has split badly, so even if not in recall be sure to check regularly.

Just an update. After racing with the 303, my other wheel showed up repaired with a new hub and spokes. Zipp has now informed me I have to return the 303 which was sent by mistake. I guess my upgrade was temporary. The funny thing is they are sending out the 303 to another customer as new even though I already used it.

This has been a huge pain in the neck when all is said and done. I only ever expected the repair to my original wheel, however all the back and forth along with the time wasted tracking down a new front brake to accommodate the wider front wheel has turned this rather simple procedure into a lot of wasted time/energy for me. Enough so that I will have to think really hard about buying anything from Zipp/SRAM again if this is the way they run their business. I would honestly tell them to pound sand and keep both wheels at this point, however that would put my LBS in a weird spot - he too has been jerked around through this entire process.

It will be a huger pain in the neck when the "new Zipp hub" becomes the old Zipp hub because something is wrong with this latest iteration too.

They ought to give up on hubs and just buy someone else's.

Unfortunately true. Thinking about folks who bought the super zedtech wheelset brand new for 30% more than the regular wheelset to have a unbelievably faster dimpled hub which turns out to be risky after just 5 years on the market.

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-shoki

That sucks... if I'd been sent a new 303 in place of my old dimpled 404 I'd want to keep it.
My wheel took just under 2 weeks and came back rebuilt with a new hub (is the new hub any good? no idea).

A few days after my front wheel was sent in my right SRAM Force shifter failed - the doubletap lever just sheared right off. Straight into the LBS, they went out the their wholesaler and picked up a new one so I could race two days later. SRAM are replacing the shifter on warranty (well, sending the LBS a new one) even though the shifter was 3 years old. According to the LBS "SRAM are making it worth his while" and between the hub and the shifter the shop are really happy with SRAM.

Apparently they weren't totally happy with SRAM on the hydraulic brake recall, but they say SRAM are making good on the hubs (and the shifter).


Not to take away from what's obviously been a crappy experience, but why a new front brake? I run narrow and wide rims with just a standard Force brake. The width is adjustable (cable tension, and that little cam lever on the caliper)... what brakes are you using?

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

I am using old Force brakes and even fully open you can't spin the wheel. I was able to get it to move by removing the spacer on the interior of the pad holder and placing it on the outside of the brakes, however it barely clears that way and you can't adjust the camber of the pad very well in that configuration. In a hard turn, I think the flex of the fork would result in a rub (we are talking minimal clearance).

I'm running 2011 Force brakes and when set up for my narrow rims (Mavic Ksyriums; old 404s) I can run my wide rims (Corima Aero+ MCC) just by opening the little cam all the way up. To be fair, the 303s are wider than the Corimas, but only by about 3mm and I can get more clearance than that by just releasing a little cable tension.

I'm pretty sure that the more recent Force (2011 onward for sure, maybe earlier) will accommodate 303 Firecrest rims easily. Maybe that wasn't true with older models(?)
Good to know for folks with older SRAM gruppos.

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

I am not a wrench by any means, but with the cable completely disconnected I couldn't get enough clearance to spin the wheel.

Easiest thing to do would be to look at my wheels, but I'm traveling. They are 2009 404s......most likely impacted? I can't tell if it's all 2008-2010, or just some OEM wheels.

My LBS returned my 404 to Zipp with the recalled hub. Returned to me one week later and I swear it was a new wheel. If this was my original wheel with just a new hub someone at Zipp spent a lot of time cleaning it up, removing scratches from a few crashes I had had, and gave me new decals. Looks mint.

Thank you Zipp !!

Does anyone know what they replace the hub with?

The v9 version of the 88 front hub (and new spokes). Unless they find that there is a problem with your current carbon rim (spoke holes) or worn brake track.

Cheers mate. Just sent mine off

I purchased a Zipp wheel on CL recently for peanuts. It was advertised as a "brand new" FC 303 gotten back from crash replacement. I went there, made all the checks against counterfeits, it was a genuine Zipp but something bothered me about the hub and spokes (they were silver). I still bought it, went home and googled the silver hub to find out they were recalled (and I pieced everything together - the rim of the old 303 was replaced with a FC 303 rim, but they kept the original hub and spokes). Sent the whole thing for recall.

Got everything back, now everything is new on the wheel (they replaced hub, spokes and whatnots). For peanuts... Can't complain!

I think V9 is the latest rear hub. It's about 25% heavier than the older hubs and they've gone to 2X lacing on both sides now (much better than the radial lacing on the drive side.) It's not clear to me how much the front hub has changed over the years.

Not replying to you specifically...just adding a data point:

Brought mine into LBS, had it back 2 weeks later, new hubs spokes etc

After the hub recall my wheels didn't match at all anymore, had a 2009 zedtech 404 which was "safe" after the recall but looked like shiit but from selling points worthless.
Anyhow, I explained that to zipp (US) cause over here in Germany they wanted me just to understand not to be able to serve every needs.
Ended up I sent both wheels in again and received a brand new set of 404FC. That's kinda backing up a product big time.

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-shoki

Do you have to be the original owner or will they do the repair even if you bought the wheels used?

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Less power, more aero.

Was out of question.

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-shoki

My LBS didn't require any invoice (I bought mine second hand). I am fairly sure in a recall, you don't need to provide proof of purchase. I might be wrong, but since it's a security issue, it would be logical to replace everything. I know that for cars they will do the recalls (ownership of the car is traceable in that case).

They will absolutely do the repair even if you bought them used. This is a safety issue.

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Did anybody with the 2nd generation have basically the same failure? I'm still not totally sure what happened, I raced on these wheels a month and a half ago then the bike went into the shed again. Took bike out today and noticed hub is destroyed just like photos of the recalled one, but mine appears to be the non-recall one. They're pre-Firecrest 808s bought March 2011

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IG: idking90

I had this happen on a set of 303's and two sets of 808's.......the 303 was hair razing as I was in a crit......ZIpp repaired/replaced all three no problem.

So this just happened to my 404 firecrest at about 22 mph...



I got stopped without crashing and good thing it wasn't on a downhill at 36mph or would have been bad. So did zipp replace yours for you?