I think they would all be about the same, 10mm isn't that much. Personally I'd go with a Blackwell 100 in front if given the choice.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

blackwell 100mm...cant say much about it as no one as riden one.....but i think it s a very promissing and interesting project and i hope to be riding a set of them for ironman new Zealand....

blackwell make quality product and are passionate about it.....Dave....can you post a picture of the NEW 100mm wheel!!!!! please...

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Most super deep wheels will be a little more difficult to control in crosswinds. It's the nature of the beast. Generally speaking, aerodynamics is about surface area. The deeper the wheel, the more surface area, thus the more aero the wheel. Deeper bladed forks will help combat this effect and help to control the aero front wheel. Our fork is the deepest out and helps wheel stability tremendously. We have a new, lighter model coming out in a few weeks.

I'd be happy to post a picture of our new 100mm wheel coming out next month. I've got pictures, just don't understand how to post pics. Happy to send it to someone to post. Any takers??

Thanks for the interest, gang.

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Dave Bunce
dave@ismseat.com
512-968-1888
http://www.ismseat.com

bump....come on someone...help Dave with this picture please.

Dave,

Send the pic to me and I'll post it. If it comes in a box with a 100mm tubular front wheel I won't complain but will graciously accept it for helping to host a pic of this highly anticipated wheel!

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Just sent them to a fellow ST'r. Enjoy and thanks for the help!! Sorry for being a picture posting retard.



Dave

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Dave Bunce
dave@ismseat.com
512-968-1888
http://www.ismseat.com

From Dave!





and in comparision to the 50mm deep

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Jason Goldberg
FIT Multisports

That is sweeeet. I know it's misspelled, but something that sweet it deserves a few extra e's.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

wow...that is sweet!

What's retail on the 100's going to be?

if i remeber ......Dave said 1499$ a pair and 699$ front only......

the wheels look so COOL!!!!!!!!!!

Dave give us some more details when you can about weight...... and that really cool hub.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Why is it necessary for the companies to put such huge logos on their wheels? Its like they feel obligated to fill up all the space on the really deep wheels Zipps are even bigger, but I like how the logo looks more than the BR ones.

penis envy

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Dave Bunce
dave@ismseat.com
512-968-1888
http://www.ismseat.com

Unsure if an extra 20mm will make that much more difference but my 808 front can become damn scarey when the wind picks up and I am out on it. I weigh about 180lbs so I am not a light weight.

Must add though no wind or tail wind and it is a sensational wheel to ride.

I have only sold the Stinger 90's as a rear wheel, although it is available as a front. In Canada, the most popular wheel combo has been H3c's front & back followed by H3C front & Stinger 90 rear.

Personally, I would be reluctant to use anything deeper than 60mm on the front unless it was on an indoor track.

BTW - I'm pretty sure the Zipp & Stinger have lenticular profiles, I don't know about the Blackwells.

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Paul "Speedy" Gonsalves
http://www.rollingthundercanada.com
RollingThunderCanada

Canadian distributor for HED Cycling, Blue Competition, Akona Biospeed & Aerus Composites

I was wondering about the rim shape as well. From what I understand, the "torridal" or whatever rim shape patent is held jointly by Hed and Zipp.

That 100mm rim is insane. I think what someone will end up doing is making a wheel that is the deepest that is legally possible just so they can (a la Hed Kona disc, but for the front). I have had some scary moments on very gusty days with my 404 front (58mm). I can't imagine the Blackwell 100. Probably a great Kona rear wheel, though. Looks great, too, but the decals need some work.

808's all the way, I love mine. You cant go wrong with ZIPP, although im intrigued by the blackwells, who the hell can ride a 100 in a cross wind, maybe in conjuction with their new fork, daaaaaaamn.

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------------------------------------------------------

http://home.pacbell.net/diana_do/knowjack.htm

Wow! I want three....or one....hell......I want anything anyone will give me (including ramen.)

wow!! can't wait to see pictures of the new fork.

If handling is what you are most worried about, then maybe it makes more sense to get a shallower front wheel and any of the deep dish ones for the back...

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"Suddenly the thought struck me. My floor is someone elses ceiling"-Nils Ferlin

no i'm not affraid of handling, i'm just wondering how the "screw the UCI fork" looks like. It's supposed to be huge.

Yes but don't forget weight at the rim affects handling as well.

We have not been able to test the new Hed Stinger 90 or 100mm Blackwell wheel yet as they are so recently available, but during our 808 development we narrowed some 40 rim shape/depth combinations down to 8 wind tunnel models varying from 80-98mm deep with varying sidewall curvatures, as well as having original an original HED DEEP Jet style wheel as well as a structural carbon version of the DEEP. We found that the older DEEP rims with flat sides performed very similar to the new at the time 4th generation 404 wheels from about 0-20 degrees, which is to say slightly better than H3, and slightly better than the 404 and slightly better than the H3 from 20-30 degrees. Of the 808 models we found that the rim width and sidewall curvature made more of a difference than the rim depth in the critical 0-20 degrees of yaw (~80% of the real world conditions) such that the 80mm profile we ended up choosing for production was faster than the 98mm rim with less 'bulge' in the shape. The 98mm deep model with larger sidewall curvature was actually slightly less aero from 0-15 degrees of yaw, but about 8% less drag from 20-30 degrees of yaw. Our decision at the time was that we need to really tune the rim for 0-15 or 0-20 degrees of yaw, not only because these conditions are most common, but because at higher yaw angles (read, higher cross wind speeds) people would be less likely to actually use the wheel. So the 808 ended up being not only the fastest in the most common conditions but had the least side-load/steering torque of all of the models we worked from..but we definitely had models both 88 and 98mm deep that were faster from 22-30degrees of yaw. That being said, I bet the Blackwell is seriously fast in high yaw conditions say past 20 or 25 degrees.

We have the link on our website to the Tour Magazine wind tunnel test in Germany where they validated our data that the 808 was actually slightly faster than a disc wheel from 0-12.5 degrees of yaw (making it the fastest non-disc they've tested in 10 years of annual wind tunnel testing), and from all the data we've taken over the years nothing (neither prototype nor production) has been able to match this yet.

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http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc

   

I have to say my 808 front did quite well in the 30mph crosswind at the Masters World Games last year. I only weigh about 150 too.

BTW, the one thing I rarely hear mentioned is that, in a crosswind, the slower you go, the higher the yaw angle. That's how the vector resolution works. So a triathlete averaging 18-20 mph has to worry more about high yaw angles than a 40K tt guy going 28-30mph.



-- jens