While the 404's can certainly take high mileage, your still best to NOT train on these wheels. They will break down sooner than traditional, "stock" training wheels in this environment, and in the end purchasing 404's are your primary set will probably not be as cost effective as you hoped. Further, it's a great feeling to train on non-aero wheels and then slap on race wheels for the big day. Call it mental, but you'll ride a hell of a lot faster.

If you are going to use 404s as your one and only wheelset, buy clinchers. They will handle impact better, and the aluminum brake track will last longer than a carbon one as well.

I will second the idea that having a set of training wheels and a set of race wheels is a very good thing. Even if you go very low end on your training wheels it will be better than putting tons of miles in on race wheels. Of course, all this depends on how much riding you are going to do. If you only ride once a week, it isn't as big a deal as it would be if you were doing 10k miles a year.

The reality is that riding wheel wears them out, training wheels or race wheels. Most people just choose to use an inexpensive set of wheels to log training miles on, and a nicer more expensive wheels to race. By putting the majority of their miles on a $300 wheelset, and only putting a few miles a year on their $2000 wheelset, they make the race wheels last more years, even if it is the same amount of miles.

Also, if you have two sets of wheels, and you go to grab your bike for a ride, and notice you have a flat from a slow leak, you can just throw the other wheel on and go.

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Disclaimer: This poster is a sales rep in the bicycle industry

When I purchased my Cervelo R3 from R&A last winter they had a sceaming deal on a pair of mis-matched Zipp wheels: a 202 for the front and a 303 on the rear. Tubulars both. These wheels have been truly bomb proof; I've run them through the roughest crap of a New England winter, no sweat.

Just my 2 cent's experience with Zipp wheels.

A 404 will handle anything you toss at it. No reason not to ride em. They can take it...I know guys who race cross on the same 404's they race IM on...just swap the tires.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I know a guy who cracked a 404 rim and another that had spoke problems with two rear 303's using them as training wheels. Zipps are not as bombroof as some people want to believe they are.

For $300 you can get a solid set of training wheels and keep the Zipps for race day.

There are at least a dozen threads on this subject in the site archives, please use the search function. Everything I or anyone else has to say on the subject is in there.

Frankly, I start to feel like a guy with an agenda everytime I respond to another one of these threads with the same answers...





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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Seems there is a whole new breed here the last six months or so....

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

not worth it, yeah zipps will handle a lot but they are more fragile than your typical heavily spoked training wheel. With Zipps you're paying for light weight, aero performance and quality control but you do drop a good bit of durability and factor of safety to failure in trade for speed. You can probably run your zipps for a hell of a long time before they fail but you can probably run a bomb proof training wheel even longer. Plus thing that aren't replaceable will wear out. Stuff like the braking surface for one. Anyways, up to you but I'd never reccomend just buying a pair of "race" wheels to train on. If you can afford Zipps you can afford a pair of cheap training wheels like maybe a pair of Easton Vistas or something. Anyways, good luck, love Zipps but save them for racing:)

As R10C pointed out - yes you can do it. The question is should you? You can drive your Lamborghini to work in the rain and snow, or you can drive your Honda. Either will work, but which will be more reliable? Which is the smarter move?

Another thing to consider is that if you're buying a new bike and you swap out the OEM wheels for 404's, you might not get full value back for the OEM wheels (depending on your shop). If that's true, then the couple hundred bucks you save isn't worth the abuse you're about to put on your $2000 Zipps.

I'm 6'4 225 and have trained regularly on Zipp 404 clinchers for 4 years now ... the original pair. Mileage well over 30K on the road and 1 rear hub replacement. I've raced on them but prefer tubulars which I generally use. These are well built wheels and by my experience last well. Use them and enjoy.
Dave

Yes, you can train on them.

I would suggest a $300 training wheelset in addition, and keeping the 404s for race day.

I think Shimano makes a pair of training wheels that retail for $150.00. R500 or something. Look on ebay and get them for even less. Seems like good insurance to me to make sure your race wheels are race ready for important races.

To be fair, "regular training wheels" are not as bombproof either. I tore through a set of Neuvations, breaking 3 spokes, and ripping a nipple through the aluminum rim. Luckily Neuvation has EXCELLENT customer service, and replaced the wheel FOR FREE, as well as sending me FREE spokes.

I use my 404s as training wheels, and even put my Powertap in them. The only thing that sucks, is if the weather is crappy, I don't take them out, so I don't get power files for that day.

Another downfall is if its snowing out, and its a trainer day, putting 404s on a trainer always makes me nervous. So I use the Easton's for trainer.

I say if you can afford 404s as trainers then get them (but listen to the others and get clinchers). They look super bling too. Or if you want that "aero" look, but want a more "bombproof" rim, go with the Cosmic Carbones. Those are just aluminum rims with the carbon "fairing."

Be sure to be fast when you show up for group training rides on 404's!! :-)

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I train on my 404s, but I ride primarily on a paved trail with no potholes or stones. When riding on the road, I'll use the Easton Circuits that came with my roadbike. Even though the 404s can take a beating, I'd rather beat up the cheap wheels. If you buy a new bike, perhaps keep your old wheels for bad weather and bad roads.

Eighteen months ago I was asking my self the same thing. I got a Cervelo P3C loaded with Dura Ace and Head stuff with Zipp 404 clincher wheels. I train with the 404s, but put on a Zipp disc to race. This has worked so far for me. I also ride a medium grade road bike for every day city riding and compu trainer use. Just be smart about what kinds of roads you ride your 404s down and you should be OK. Tim

I vote for two sets of wheels too. I bought a set of new Mavic Open Pros for $150.00 to complement my 404's. I love the quickness of the race wheels, but also like to ride worry free on my Mavics.

You absolutely can train on 404's. A buddy of mine and Tom's that we ride with in the mornings uses them all the time. He is a bit of an older fella so he feels they give him a bit of an advantage.

Zipp makes some of the most durable wheels on the market. The reason for not training on them is that their so darn expensive, not because they're fragile. You'd be pretty disappointed if you wrecked your 404's as opposed to a less expensive wheel because it would cost much more to replace.

That said, Zipp does have a great customer service and wheel repair service. If you have the cash, go for it. If not, use the 404's for racing and less expensive wheels for training.

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"It is not the great things we do in life that really matter, it's the small things we do with a great heart..."-Mother Theresa

"Zipp makes some of the most durable wheels on the market. The reason for not training on them is that their so darn expensive, not because they're fragile."


Well, there goes your credibility on this topic...



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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Good to see you around Fredly...

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"It is not the great things we do in life that really matter, it's the small things we do with a great heart..."-Mother Theresa

no comment.

Frankly, I start to feel like a guy with an agenda everytime

Theres no agenda, it's nice and straight forward and simple. For the newbies:

Train on - a set of basic, bomb-proof regular spoked clincher rims. These can be bought or built up for not a lot of money.

Race on - a set of the most aerodynamic and lightest wheels that you can afford with the best rubber that you can afford - clincher or tubular. The ZIPP 404's are an outstanding choice for this.

If you do this right, both sets of wheels will last you for YEARS!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

i like to use cheapo, crappy, heavy wheels for training and keep the zipps for race day - that way I am pushing more watts in training for like conditions and get a nice boost of speed come race day!

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www.true-motion.com Triathlete Casual Wear since 2007
(Twitter/FB)

I agree on the above.

I may add that going to the extreme and not using your expensive race wheels but on races may expose you to a surprise in the least desirable moment. I know some cyclists that have a phobia towards using their disc wheels on training rides. A race is not the best place to experience the handling characeristics of a disc wheel.

Sergio

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Note: English is not my first language. Please read this translated post considering that.

I would like to follow up on Sergio's comment about training with a disc. I also do some of my training with a disc, I think this is very important for courses like Tupper Lake 1/2 Ironman distance and for the close by Lake Placid IM course. The reason behind this is that these courses are in the mountains (I'm OK with the left coast crowd laughing at this point), but any way you look at it, you can expect to get going pretty fast in some areas and then be exposed to some tricky cross winds while also having to make some turns and not go over the yellow line or into the guard rail. The New Jersey Devilman sprint and 1/2 Iron distance courses are very flat and straight, but in early April can be subjected to strong winds and gusts (this year the wind was steady at 20 and gusting to 30 mph). This would not be the time to find out what that does to your disc. This year at Devilman I found out that my beer belly has finally found a good use for itself, center line ballast. Tim