No response as to whether he posts here... I guess that's a "no".

Truthfully, if he were part of the Peaceful Tribe, as it were, I would be inclined to cough up some cash, but he's not...

"we've been fed a KENNY SOUZA promotional build up from Paul over the past few weeks that culminated in the request for $32,000...calling it anything else is disingenuous."

i during the late 90s and early part of this decade i would see kenny at clif bar events. kenny's racing weight was 130, mine was about 165. i was a bit overweight during this time, and while manning these clif bar booths kenny outweighed me. he was pushing the line of clinically obese. he wasn't just another happy, retired merckx, lemond type, there was a fair bit of personal and family issues that accompanied his retirement, accruing to his weight issues.

so i was very skeptical that he would actually make it back to anything even close to his or anyone else's former glory. i'm amazed that the latent talent survived the self-abuse, and just as surprised to see the fitness there.

paul has been his cheerleader all along, and he's done so on this forum since, as far as i can tell, november 4, 2004. you'll see a "thomas/souza adventures" thread 9 months ago, way before ths RAAM thing was ever conceived. one can see why paul decided to take on this role if one understands paul's own personal history, which included a couple of national duathlon titles.

later last june the thread was, "kenny souza's back in shape and is ready to clame his name again!!," and that was paul thomas' writing. a month later it was, " Souza is commited!," at it was paul writing that kenny entered zofingen, a race he won about 15 or so years ago. nobody asked for any donations to help kenny get to switzerland.

if you do a forum search for "souza" you'll find that paul has been kenny's unpaid and unrecruited PR guy throughout.

i don't recall kenny considering RAAM until after the furnace creek 508, in november of last year (paul reported here on that venture). i think it was only after that race that kenny thought that he might be able to go all 3000 miles.

as to you, and your status as an asshole, i'm not informed as to your character and so am not in a position to debate this on the merits. but as to your thesis, you are clearly wrong. paul's "run-up" on this forum was not over several weeks, but 18 or so months. it was not paul's idea to go looking for a sponsor in this way because, up until a week or so ago, kenny thought he had a sponsor who would pick up the tab.

anyone who has the ability, fitness and drive to contend for the win cannot do RAAM on a shoestring. no, you can't stay in people's houses along the way. you can't drop in for dinner at various forum member's kitchens throughout the midwest. does it take $32,000? i don't know. probably one could do it for less if one was creative and got a lot of in-kind support.

it's up to each reader to determine whether, and how much, anyone wants to donate to the cause. people here raised $10,000 for challenged athletes in just this way. if you'd rather just raise more challenged athletes money instead of sending kenny to the east coast, that's okay too. i think it would be pretty cool to have a guy win RAAM and have his title sponsor be the SLOWTWITCH FORUM READERS.

either way, this effort was ad-hoc, and while paul is a good huckster, he isn't shrewd enough to have foreseen this a year and a half in advance.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Why do you have to be a dick?

I've given enough money to charity runners that were fat, slow (5+ hours). I want to give money to a rocket for once. I think Kenny will make me feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

nice!

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Dax
http://dirtyrunning.blogspot.com

"meanwhile, you're an asshole."

Preach it brother Dan! Spot on.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

It would seem to me that if you wanted to raise a bit of credibility to this thing, you would have Kenny come out and answer the skeptics? How many times have the posters hammered Bjorn, and when he started posting, they were all ga-ga and his best pal. Slowtwitch.....ah, brings out the best.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

. it was not paul's idea to go looking for a sponsor in this way because, up until a week or so ago, kenny thought he had a sponsor who would pick up the tab.


I think this is the context that was needed in the original posting.

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_______________________________________________
you know my name, look up my number
_______________________________________________

Believe me, this only scratches the surface of Paul's generosity. Good on ya....I'm in.

Thanks for everything you do, and good luck.

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"....No longer easy on the eyes but these wrinkles masterfully dusguise the youthful boy below."~Death Cab for Cutie

http://www.a1cyclery.com

Having personally spent a great deal of time fundraising for a RAAM rider many years ago, I can assure you you're wrong. Fundraising is very common among RAAM entrants, as it is a very expensive endeavor and cash sponsorship is very difficult to find.

If you don't want to contribute, no one is forcing you to read this thread.

>>there are many, many examples of people raising money for charity at that level, but i can't think of a single case where people just raised significant money for their own personal adventure<<

Uh, what exactly is Team in Training? If those participant so wanted to donate to lukemia research, then they could just cut a check. But the funds they raise include a trip and race entry FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL ADVENTURE. What's the difference?

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Hey Mike,

There's a lot of good stuff on the forum too. I like to focus on that. There's fa lot of helpful olks out there like you for example. Don't give up!

BTW - If you're able to support Kenny you won't be disappointed. 20 years from now you'll remember it as the most satisfying sponsorship $$$ you ever spent.

Cheers, Scott Molina

Wow! I AM Kenny's sponsor!

I like the sound of that. I wonder if he'll put my name on his shorts?

Seriously, though, I'm happy to support a grassroots effort to enter Kenny into his next epic event.

Thanks to Paul Thomas for getting this thing started.

Rob

Ask him about Mr Peanut! Good luck Kenny.

I'm not criticizing Paul, or you, or anyone for what you are doing. I'm merely stating that much of that which has been posted to build up this image of Kenny does not in fact check out all that well from a fact perspective. It may all be true. None of it may be true. I suspect that it is somewhere in between. But what is clear is that all the dots don't connect at times and now you are using that imagery (some of which is likely to be false) to raise money. I'm merely raising that point so Paul can address it. Thus far he has chose not to. End of story.

Bryanjaf-

I know Kenny, Paul, and Noreen, and can personally assure you that Paul would not prop up false stories to scam money for Kenny's goal of RAAM. I talk with Kenny often and it was never his intention to do RAAM until after the 508. He is excited but also notes that there is an issue of digging up the $$$. I would probably say that Kenny has done more for the sport of not just duathlon, but also triathlon as well than say you ever will. In addition he has NEVER asked for anything in return. While Paul is one hell of a sales person, I commend Paul for his support of helping Kenny kick ass in this race.

So to you bryanjaf, thanks for being the pimple on the ass of this thread :-)



Paul..I will contribute as well what I can.



James

"(sorry to burst your ego-centric bubble)", --sorry you feel this way, obviously you don't know me. There isn't room for ego in ultra distance sports. THe second you display it, the second you fail. I don't doubt from my passion you might read it as something else, for that I apologize. I have written in very negative form when I just didn't get it, I am slowly getting it (and getting the swelling off the brain helped significantly).

"no, the ultra community would shun this self-promotion...maybe you can just answer the question "why?" that others have asked...now about the story that a carberator was lying in the middle of the road...i'm no mechanic, but does that ever happen" --

Kiri--as for the shunning of the self-promotion, not around the many athletes I know. I don't doubt in certain parts of the World this isn't true--so I can understand your thought pattern. Personally I would say at least 10-20 athletes each year for the last 6 yrs has asked me for something, and within my means I have provided. When undertaking something that can alter your life (impact it positive or negative), the last thing you need to be worrying about is funds. That stress will rob you blind and zap positive energy in the depths of the night. Someone once told me, you gamble big you lose big or win big--these are the things Souza needs to be focusing on, not the money stuff--he is LUCKY to have Paul and Noreen by his side. Souza's ONLY job is to focus on riding his bike, everything else is up to his crew--I applaud Paul and Noreen for starting the crewing this far out.

As for the concern over the carberator--if I didn't do as much open road as I have, I probably would question too. Even in cleaned roads for racing I have dodged dead dogs, dear, turkeys. On my own, knives (butcher just last week!), engine (!), too many batteries (as in car) to count, wheels, mattress, trash bags, tricylce, fed-ex box (no ups yet), purses, brief case, ect ect. Have found 4 wallets that I have returned, and one passport. No clue how this crap gets caught on the side of the road, but it is very dangerous out there. People change car parts on the side of the road and leave them, not to mention things just falling off the truck. It would be cool if the RAAM crossers could take photos of their encounters--I think you would be surprised--and the beer count in each state is quite unique.

Paul,

Sorry, I have been off an on ST for a week now and totally missed this thread. I am pumped to be a "souza sponsor" in my small little way. Tomorrow at lunch time I will make my donation.

...and whether he wins RAAM or not, I could care less. Some of you pros from the 80's are what got me going in this sport. I'm starting season 22 and it has been an awesome ride. Thanks to all of you for inspiring me

...oh yeah, and for you industry guys, I bought a Nishiki in 1987 cause Souza had one, I bought Scott DH Aerobars in 1988 cause Andrew McNaughton thrashed the big Four, I bought a Kestrel 4000 in 1990 cause Mark Allen was unbeatable at Nice on that bike, and I bought the silver blue and grey nike tri shorts cause Monty was hauling ass in them. Maybe I am a more enlightened consumer today and I buy product not cause the pros use them, but because they are good products. Then again, perhaps the fact that Zabriskie, Bjorn and Steve Larsen all rode P3's were good enough reasons to influence me...

In any event, for all you industry guys that rode the successes of the early pros, I say thanks. Consider sponsoring a guy like Souza again. You'll be surprised how many of us 40 somethings will open up our wallets when we see our original heros hauling ass using your product...

Dev

i hear you eileen...but i am a mom and have done an olympic program that raised a lot more $ than a raam ride...and i am solicited weekly for other's programs...as for raising money, it is not trivial...you (often) have a responsibility to your donors to explain yourself/mission in detail...some donors don't care but it is not at all unreasonable for someone to ask "why" and "how does it fit in your life's purpose?" and to have the recipient respond thoughtfully...and not be called an asshole...then there are the details about taxes...how is the bank account set-up? does the donor get a write off (without risk that it gets ruled invalid by the irs later for which the donor becomes liable? if not is the athlete paying taxes on this income...sounds picky but, the ill-prepared athlete can actually go to jail for raising money and not paying taxes...so are his supporters sending him into a problem area? "ALL CAPS" PAULTHOMAS is showing a lot of naivite in the way he pitched this...and whomever set-up the donation web site...those are the easiest places to track donation...(and I have seen all the road kill you have seen, but never seen a pinch flat from hitting a chunk of metal, nor do i imagine that a car can get on the road with a faulty carberator in order for it to fall off...call me whatever name you want, but i spot a few "red flags" so far...now call me a mom...and ask me what i think of a 40 yr old father living on the edge financially and says in his raam bio that he has a talent for drinking beer...and has two kids...scott molina thinks donors would look back 20 years from now and be proud...personally i'd be most proud of a dad that heroed-up, turned off "glory days" and pumped gas to pay more child support...

If Kenny does it, I will give him $100 of my much needed money that i've already spent (Sorry I wont fund the campaign, but will pledge).

He is a defining person in the history of the sport and an inspiration to many including myself, that like all of us has had his ups and downs. If Kenny want's to do it? It will be as dominating as Simon Lessing and Michellie Jones!

Go Kenny, ride the wave......

Kiri, on your last note, I think I would be proud of a dad, who actually had the guts to lost ~35 lbs, get into shape and dream about entering RAAM. The example he sets for his kids is a good one. YOu may be down. You may not be what you used to be. But you are willing to set a goal, put a plan in place and try and execute on that. My son knows that most endeavors in life are not easy. Life throws curve balls at the best laid plans and sometimes you have to hit that 80 mph adversity curve ball square on and try and hit it out of the park. It may take a few swings and strikes, but there is nothing wrong in staying standing in the batters box to try and eventually win at something. Now, perhaps this is the best thing that Kenny knows. Not everyone on this forum is an MBA, an engineer, a lawyer or doctor. While many of us were collecting grad degrees in the 80's and early 90's, these guys were being full time athletes. Maybe, just maybe, he can actually end up making a better living doing what he did best and in doing so can do good for his children. We don't know cause we are not Kenny. Bottom line is that most people try and stick with the profession that they were "trained in". I see no wrong in Souza getting back into that profession rather than pumping gas to pay for child support.

The rest of your post was well thought out with respect to things that team Souza should consider (and perhaps may have already done).

Dev

Dude, I know this sounds obvious, but there are circles where people manipulate each other and screw each other over consistently, but there are other circles where people genuinely try to help each other out with no expectation for personal gain. Lately, I've witnessed some truly amazing acts of generosity that lead me to believe that there are lots of places where behaviors don't have ulterior motives. Yes, you can look back on a series of events and then fabricate a conspiracy that explains that past series of events. That is one perspective but it's not positive and does not foster any positive or supportive thinking. That negativity just leads to more skewed perceptions of past events which fosters even more negativity.

What if you went out of your way to interpret events in a positive manner? What if one time out of ten you were wrong? Yes, you'd catch that one time someone really was screwing you, but you would not also taint those nine other positive experiences.

Anyway, I'll buy tickets if you and Slowman want to duke it out, because I bet that triathletes would be pretty funny fighters, but it's probably not worth the time away from training.

I just pitched in a little cash for Ken and you should both post cash and retract those negative posts--- They are poisonous. At a minimum you bummed out the people who were fundraising for Ken and you may have also bummed out a guy who is training 200 miles a day in hopes of making it across the country on his bike in 8 or 9 days. Why wouldn't you want to support that?

-Marc

Kiri--you raise important concepts. Awesome on your fund raising events. Financially if the amount that is donated is under (is it 250?) per person it doesn't have to be declared. The person donating can't declare it unless it has a tax number which I highly doubt this does. I think you are reading too much into KS's bio--it is hard to get the feel for someone through the written word (and some people are sarcastic that doesn't come through). Only he knows what is going on. It is also quite possible that sport has and does alter his life to the positive. Some people need those endorphins to get the rest of their brain working and their life in order. No one knows these answers but the athlete.

Kenny has demons out there that are very real. The last thing he needs to be doing right now is answering questions, his thoughts need to be solely on training and prepping. Sleeping, eating and spending time with the kids are his only other priorities. If Kenny is smart he is staying away from forums and just focusing on his tasks at hand.

As for the why's--I don't have that answer, I don't think KS nor any RAAMers have that answer, that could be what they are looking for. I for one am not out to question their intent. As for Kenny being a good Dad--I thought his one son was in the 508 crew car, I can't even imagine what a thrill that was for him to watch Dad winning the event. Those kind of situations can't be bought. Some things in life are far greater than money. I know many wealthy parents that don't even know their kids--they would do anything to switch and have a Dad that cared about them. I don't doubt for a minute Kenny is an awesome Dad, Dad's are allowed to live a little too. Who is to say he isn't doing this to show how you can bounce back from something and write a book/articles ect. Either way he is inspiring many, including his kids. To me Kenny has already succeeded--he QUALIFIED and he did it on his first attempt- extremely difficult to do!!! Very few people get that opportunity. To carry it to the next step of racing, simply remarkable. That effort alone is all I need for my Why to chose to give hard earned money which I would probably piss away on a pair of shoes :-) who am I kidding, my money isn't hard earned.

As for the carburator, I think you are missing what I am trying to say--there is lots of crap out there on the road. Things fall off of tow trucks/flat beds/ect on a regular basis- not necesarily a driving car. When things are hot, they are left or kicked to the side of the road, you can't pick up burning metal.

Now I go to bed, I am not Kenny, so no way can I answer what is in his mind. I just know he is attempting a race that scares the hell out of me, so I choose to live vicariously through him, and will help in any means I have. For his health I could care less where his finish line comes.

Wow - Gary out of the mist...into the forum.

Yes if Kenny did post these people would go ga-ga. He has a resume that will far surpass I think anyone on ST - yes ANYONE. But, as you said...Slowtwitch brings out the worst in people. We are all doubters on the Internet, as for me. I am sending Kenny a check, but as for me - I have been to RAAM, I have seen what it takes (and I dont have what it takes).

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Does Mr. Souza post on this forum?

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Who cares if he does not? What is that? The test to see if he is worthy of our support? Fuck folks - we sent money to a homless man hit by a car on his bike...did he post? Not that he was not worth our efforts - but Ken Souza sure as hell is.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

once again, you completely miss my point. i'm not going to ask you to lay out all the facts and figure it out for yourself, because you are clearly incapable of doing just that. but there is a much bigger picture that you and all the old school cronies on this thread just can't seem to grasp. you put blind ambition ahead of logic and in fact what some might call "the truth". if i am an asshole for not giving to the kenny souza fund, than fine i'm an asshole, but not for asking the obvious questions how 1 + 1 = 3.

thanks your personal assurance. i'll file it away with slowman's compliments. they deserve to share the same file folder, because both of them are not worth that much.