That's my point. Nobody knows the story. Or maybe they're jealous because none of us can afford wind tunnel time. I give this fella five stars for taking his riding position so seriously.

I'll give you another example - I know a woman with a severe scoliosis and a steel Harrington rod in her back. It's physically impossible for her to ride in an official ST approved position. A photo of her bike position would be torn apart on this forum but she is still a regular podium finisher at local races despite her "handicap". I agree that some of these comments are inconsiderate to say the least.

I am ten posts into this thread, and I am wondering when the ref is going to throw the flag and give ST a 15yd penalty for piling on.

Seriously folks, what did this guy ever do to you? Lighten up a bit.

Paul

I don't mind the position. what bothers me is the colour coordination, or lack of thereof. :P

I don't mind the *position* either since he can't likely get any lower for obvious reasons. But 1K (or whatever) for an improvement in his coef of drag of 0.05 seems, ah ...

If this gentleman has a harrington rod in his spine (for ex), then it only gets worse that he is trying (presumably) to get more *aero*, but I think we all can glean why. Hopefully, with a year or two under his belt he can retool his position and dream crush us all! No ill will here at all, although trial by internet/ST sure is fun ;)

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

If you go to the blog you can get higher resolution pictures. It's pretty clear the guy is 60+ (or he just plain didn't age well), so in all likelyhood he can't get lower.

For the record, I'm 34 and bend like rebar. I can sympathize.

Training bible coaching: $150 a month
Aero helmet - $200
Carbon Frame - $2200
Being an AGer into tris getting called out for public humiliation by a pro - Priceless

Congrats on your usual good work, ST.
ETA - I expect it form the usual yahoos here, but I would think a pro would feel sort of an ambassadorship to the sport, if for nothing else that the more people that do tris, the bigger your payday gets to be.

Ditto what Chris said 'Criticism is fine but do you guys have to be so cruel? Seriously, is it really necessary?'

So much for projecting that Triathlon is a friendly sport filled with supportive people when you rip someone apart like this. Some of you people might want to look at yourselves in the mirror more often to see if there are things that you need to change, like your attitudes towards others.....

I can see this thread being pulled a`la the Finman post when the guy gets wind of it.

WTF Rappstar? WTF?

I think it is OK to point things out to someone who does (Finman) or says (Me, usually) on Slowtwitch, but to pull something from outside of Slowtwitch and mock him?

The guy seems charged up about getting better and so what if he has more disposable income than others. Does that make him less of an athlete?

Your post seems to cross the line of decency by quite a bit and smacks of the popular kids in high school picking on the other kids for not being, well, not popular or athletic.

What a crowd.....

Point:
Many of us have worked long and hard to build that 25 pound gut! These things don't happen over night, They take lots of couch time doing multiple reps with the Coors or Michelob bottle.

My suggestion is, unless you have put in the time STFU! ;-)

x2 I would hate to be one of his sponsors and see this thread!!!

You know what I really miss about living in Phoenix?

All the 12 packs of beer people used to bring over so I could re-fit them to their bike after going to one of the bike shops in Phoenix. Free beer...Mmmmmm

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Wow. For the record, I think the person to be ridiculed (assuming there is one) is Joe Friel. Joe charges $1,000 a month for coaching. And he let this guy book TWO hours of windtunnel time at $850 a pop. If I coached this guy, I would certainly NOT hold him up as an example of someone I wanted to take to the tunnel. If Joe wants to help lighten his clients wallets, that's fine. But to somehow post that this was a serious exercise in positioning is foolish. I thought I made that clear by highlighting Joe's statement about "how great the initial fit was."

The object of my own incredulity is not the guy's position. I know these guys. Dan & I always cover this topic in the workshop. This guy does not belong on a tri bike. Rather, he cannot optimally ride a tribike (at least, assuming that the original fitter did a good job, which I don't know). But this guys *wants* a tribike (again, giving de facto credit to the fitter for executing a "best of a lot of bad options" fit). So you sell him a tribike, because otherwise this guy buys one from down the street. But this fellow would likely be faster and more comfortable on a road bike. But that's life. He's a triathlete so he wants a tribike.

What I don't understand is how a coach and someone who (some) people look up to - Friel - can post this with a straight face. There is no discussion that this guy is certainly not optimized. My guess (and it's only that) is that when you charge an ABSURD amount for coaching, you need to give the occassional reach-around, and that's all I see this as being.

There will be always be folks with more money than sense. I don't see the need to pile on them. But I do absolutely think it's okay to ask WTF Friel is doing for that premium price he charges. If you are going to charge that much money (and even if you don't), you owe it to your clients to provide some level of common sense. I don't even know how you could feel good knowing you were sending a guy out the door with a snapped-steerer-tube-waiting-to-happen.

I suppose it is telling that everyone chooses to pick on the guy, rather than the fitter or, specifically, the "legendary" coach.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

No, $1500/month.

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The Triathlon Squad

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Whatever

Read the thread re: your "everyone" comment. Some of us didn't "pick on the guy" at all but called you on your public humiliation of the guy. Guess it's your duty to "protect" us from the guys like Friel (backed up by Paulo... another coach.... good marketing) by using this poor guy as your example. Collateral damage you could have accomplished without the humiliation

I only know you from ST, and you came off as an okay guy and approachable pro. Maybe I am wrong. Certainly think differently tonight

Fixed your post for you.

And yeah, you know me and Jordan, we're ALL about the marketing... Especially me, I am ALL about the marketing....

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The Triathlon Squad

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Wow, you clearly either (1) have no idea what the point is or (2) don't care.

How did I humiliate him? I posted his pictures? I commented that his CdA would be decent for a road position, which is really position he *ought* to be in; this guy just provided proof from the windtunnel that unless you can ride a tribike as it was designed, you will be faster and more comfortable on a road bike.

It's not my duty to "protect" anyone. I just don't have a problem calling a spade a spade, especially when that particular spade is putting his stamp of "authority" on books, coaching services, etc. If you hold yourself up as a paragon (which I *absolutely*, to borrow from Craig Hummer, think Friel does), be prepared to have that notion challenged. And I don't see that it's productive to challenge someone without any substance. Maybe you read the original post I linked, and maybe you didn't think that it was a bit absurd; that's your choice. But if anyone publicly humiliated this guy, it's Joe, who put that crap up on his blog, which I assure you will be read by more people than will read this particular post.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

This your first time at the ST rodeo sonny? Really, you had no idea that the ST posters wouldn't go to town on the guy?

riiiiiight

But you got your digs on Friel, so in the words of dubya, Mission Accomplished

You don't have a duty to protect anyone. But just because you are a pro you don't have the right to post someone's elses's pic of an AG athlete - no matter how much he pays for coaching or how much he spends on equipment -- so that others can comment. By the way, I am sure you took that pic and own the intellectual property to be able to post it here.

Oh, and for Paulo, yeah, those pesky triathletes that have disposable income and pay coaches to do a recreational sport. Whether they pay Friel $1,000 or whatever it is, or you $500 or $100 or whatever it is you charge, it's all funny money to do a stupid recreational pasttime. without that disposable income I'd say you'd be out of a job. Might want to hold off slamming those that put food on your table.

But really, you and Jordan continue on, I'll watch from the sidelines and see if you can dig a deeper hole

Will you marry me?

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

You see, let this be a warning for you not to jump to conclusions without the facts. Maybe I am wiser than you, and instead of jumping to the conclusion that you're an idiot and you don't know what you're talking about, I am thinking you're probably a great guy and maybe one of these days we'll get together for some coffee or something.

Like I said somewhere else, it's a case of buyer beware. But it's also a good example of the unlimited greed and lack of ethics at all levels of our society that got us to the hole we're into now.

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The Triathlon Squad

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Dude, you are SOOOOO barking up the the wrong tree. The Opossum is in that tree, that one over there.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

It has nothing to do with the fact that I am a pro. It has everything to do with the fact that I get paid to teach people how to fit triathletes aboard their bikes as Dan's co-instructor at the FIST workshops. Well, that's not exactly right. Personally, I think that part of one's responsibility as a pro is to be a spokesperson. Me, I choose to be a spokesperson for proper bike fit, both as a pro and as a fitting instructor.

The images are hotlinked, not reposted on a separate hosting site. Furthermore, I gave proper citation as to the source of the images. I also suspect that the pictures would fall under "fair usage" guidelines, since I'm not presenting them in any way, shape, or form as my own intellectual property.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Funny but I got Rapp’s point on his OP hence I responded in the way I did. It was others posters who chose to pick on the guy rather than focusing on Jordan’s point which he made VERY clear above: a critic at the coach not the athlete. It seems you don’t think is fair to criticize some one like Friel but I digress and it is more amusing than shocking how some people listen and take all his words as gospel, I guess it is normal after all the guy wrote a book with word Bible on the title! ;-) Anyway, even if Friel’s blog would have shown a fit athlete, a pro, a mannequin or a dog, Jordan’s criticism would have been the same given the data suggest BEFORE and AFTER the fit and it is a fair point to debate IMO.

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Jorge Martinez
Head Coach - Sports Science
E3 Training Solutions, LLC
@CoachJorgeM