I think Hed is a pure technology company. Zipp is combination of technology and marketing. Clearly Zipp does better job marketing. Having said that who did Lance and Trek call when they needed help with aero designs? Who did ABG call when they needed help with Real Design wheels?

I think Steve Hed is one of the most respected men in the industry...but perhaps not for his marketing acumen.

Agreed.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Who really cares who helped Lance and ABG? I can't think of one Hed product I would *want* to ride over the equivalent Zipp product. Seriously, who would rather ride a Hed disc over a Zipp disc, or a Jet what ever over a 404? Money not being an option of course. I am not saying Hed is a bad company, just that I think Zipp has become the clear leader in the aero wheel field. Just my opinion of course.

Well ya know what they say about opinions and a** holes.





K

And even Lance rides a Zipp disc...

I would go do far as to say that Zipp is a marketing company first, and a technology company second... or more accurataly they use "technology" as marketing. Do you really think 30,00 rpm ceramic bearings or dimples really do anything at the speeds this wheel travels? Zipps are great, solid, reliable, fast wheels. But, the fact that Zipp couldn't find any technology that would actually make the wheel faster didn't stop them from designing in a bunch of stuff that's irrelevant so they can "differentiate" themselves to charge more.

Oh, and yes, I'll take a Hed trispoke over a 404 or any other Zipp front wheel any day.

And the other wheel that Lance normally rides in the front wasn't even really created by Hed. It was bought by Hed from DuPont, if memory serves? I guess they added some carbon to the rim to make a deeper dish version of it, but that seems pretty ingenuous to me.

Not knocking the company really. What they have works. But I'd certainly like to see more innovation from a company that's supposed to be headed by an authority on the subject matter at hand.

I think the fact that Zipp discs are significanlty lighter than the Hed disc is relevent. Maybe there isn't much technology involved in that process, but it is a difference. Now that you mention it, I am not relly sure what Hed does as far as technology. Maybe dimples and bearings or what ever don't make a difference, but at least they are trying to improve on their wheels. What has Hed's biggest inovation been over the last 5 or so years? They replaced the aluminum rim on the H3 with a carbon one. Wow, that's really pushing the technology. Not to mention that they constantly tell us they are coming out with a disc that will be in the same ballpark as Zipp and Renn, but yet it never shows up.

TriSpoke over a 808? Sure, what ever works for you. I think it (H3) is a great wheel. I rode it in one IM and didn't like it, but that's just me. It seems to work for a lot of my friends. I am sure Hed is a great company and they do make excellent products, but that doesn't make them a leader in way. That's all I am getting at.

That wasn't a Zipp under Lance this year...Bontrager.

---

B.Oliver -My Blog...triguywithavx.wordpress.com
Powered by:
-accelerate3.com coaching-
-**TriSports.com Save 20% Message me for one time use code {restrictions apply...see site)

Which buys its discs from Zipp. :P

Putting a Bontrager sticker on my ass doesn't make my ass a bongrager wheel....

It was a Zipp.

And he rode a titanium Trek also...Hahahaha!

---

B.Oliver -My Blog...triguywithavx.wordpress.com
Powered by:
-accelerate3.com coaching-
-**TriSports.com Save 20% Message me for one time use code {restrictions apply...see site)

No, that was a Trek time trial bike he raced with in '99! Just ask Herbert ;)

I hear what you're saying, but I think there's a grey area between true innovation and innovating for the sake of having a new product to roll out every year or two. I really respect companies that do their homework, put out the best product they can, and leave it alone until they have something that's significantly better. yes, the trispoke design is old, and Hed didn't even invent it- they bought the design. But, it's still one of the fastest wheels available today and I truly respect the fact that they haven't monkeyed with it just to stir up sales a bit. yes, there are lighter wheels out there than the H3 or Hed disk, so I won't use it for a hill climb event but weight is irrelevant for a TT or tri.

As another example (as a proud member of the Cult of Cervelo) look how long the P3 design lasted completely unchanged. The bike just plain kicks ass, and it didn't need some new fairing or widget every year to keep it's place as one of the premier bikes in the industry. That's solid design, and letting the product speak for itself.

My old HED CX and CX Deep (not jets) are the most dependable race wheels I have owned (okay, they are the only ones I've owned). I have raced them for about 7 years now with no problems other than having to be trued once or twice. They are not the lightest but they get the job done!

---

B.Oliver -My Blog...triguywithavx.wordpress.com
Powered by:
-accelerate3.com coaching-
-**TriSports.com Save 20% Message me for one time use code {restrictions apply...see site)

oh...and those aero bars he rode were made by...?

---

---

"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

Speaking from purely a business standpoint: Sometimes you just don't need more advertising and more money. As a business owner I can sometimes sit back and say enough $$ is enough $$. More money is more work.....maybe they feel as though they are making emough money right now and don't need more work to make more money. Did that make sense?

I sometimes sit back and enjoy myself without increasing business all the time. There is a time and place to increase business. Actually....the next 3 months is a really good time, since my Inn is on the market!! More sales = higher sales price!! Better get back to work!! : )

.

---

.
.
Paul

Unfortunately sarcasm can't be seen over the net! : )~

---

B.Oliver -My Blog...triguywithavx.wordpress.com
Powered by:
-accelerate3.com coaching-
-**TriSports.com Save 20% Message me for one time use code {restrictions apply...see site)

Heds aren't expensive enough for triathletes. especially the triathletes at kona.

-mike

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

"wonder why?"

there are two reasons for this, in no particular order.

first, hed's best wheel is its trispoke, the hed3. a lot of people are worried about how this wheel will handle in a bad hawaii sidewind. i'm not saying this is a reasonable concern, but it is a concern nonetheless (me? i'd ride a pair of hed3 wheels in hawaii).

second, in years past hed was closely aligned with john cobb, back when cobb was a retailer. this unnerved a lot of other retailers, who favored buying and selling zipps. they thought that a "tie" would go to cobb, and this was probably a justified concern. it was a bad strategic move to become so closely associated with one retailer.

three or so years ago hed realized this mistake, and has been working hard to resurrect its relationships with its historic dealer base. it's done a very good job at this, in large part because it's got very good products to sell. however, zipp has always had a much stronger sales force, and this isn't an obstacle you can overcome in a year or two.

if you think about what your LBS is likely to carry (over the years) it's zipp. regardless of what your LBS says to you, the reasons are not price, or quality, or any of that. it's just that zipp has offered more to the dealer. zipp is the "trek" of aero wheels. good dealer service, margins, and whatever else glues manufacturers to dealers.

the bigger picture is that this discussion revolves around two companies. as i have been writing for years, there are only two authentic wheel companies. when you consider mavic, campagnolo, lew, bontrager, corima, rolf, sun ringle, shimano, easton, and a dozen other companies (many of them quite large) who've tried to get into this market, it's remarkable that it's still the two small midwest sole-proprietor companies running things around here.

lightweight had quite a few wheels in the race, notable when one considers their price, and i think reynolds has interesting technologies to throw at this market, but in general you're still talking about hed and zipp (and that's as it should be).

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

hehe...i forgot my ;) face as well :-)

---

---

"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

talk about me too.....please please please. i'm a small southern sole-proprietorship..... ;) but we weren't in kona...stupid race that it is ;)

on a serious note, a poster was correct earlier. sometimes it ain't "worth" getting bigger for bigger sake.

And aren't they still the only two who own the patent rights to the lenticular shape?

maybe if you'd make a deep wheel for 500/pair you'd be in kona. :)

come on, you know you can do it...