So I put my old computrainer on a wall above my head, and one side put a handle, the other side put a weight, connect with a chain over a wheel ? Then just do butterfly stroke pull?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/s8RAtJRT5YEsnXKQ6

As the pictures, hopefully, show, I have a drywall bucket with weight as an anchor. Bungee cord connected from the handle of the bucket to the chain. Then some baler twine to connect to my handle setup. I have a little problem with chain skip, I'm using an ancient 5 speed mtb wheel. It's a wind trainer, so I like to be able to use different gears for resistance. I use it a fair amount in the winter. 30-45 minutes and then an XC ski focused strength session makes for a good workout.

Holy Shit! This is something you'd see in a SAW movie.

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Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg

Never thought of that, perhaps I can hook up a chain from a chain saw and cut firewood! :-)

I have finally found the ultimate "poor man vasa" (at least for us Euros), as cheap as ~150$

https://www.duvlan.eu/.../duvlan-supergym-sg/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULs75vmguOo

Isn't this just a knockoff of the Total Gym?

Honestly you can make a dumb swim ERG for about $15.

The only thing you don't have at your house already are swim bands.

Something to think about:

With a VASA the tension is the same throughout the pull. Which seems like a good thing. But I am not so sure. With bands the tension increases through out the stroke (because the band is lengthening). It seems to me that the sweep is the most powerful part of the stroke because the lever angle is the best. This is exactly when the tension is highest if you are on a stable bench doing pull.

Nordic Track ski machines are pretty cheap on Craigslist. I've even seen them at Goodwill and garage sales, usually $20-$50 or so. They make a great dry-land swim alternative. I may have even built some extra strength, as the cable tension has infinite resistance, and I can make it harder than swimming. Please never mind my stroke form... I was finished with my workout, and very tired.

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Athlinks / Strava

I already have some nice stretch cords, actually. Possibly now I should get a body building bench to lie down on and make them more swim-like. Using cords with different resistance would also make sense (now I'm using the "strong" ones)

youtube says video is private

Should work now. Thanks! Old man still trying to figure out how to do videos...

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Athlinks / Strava

Yeah! Thanks for the video Dean

Do you really think that performance in distance events is all cardio? And you have a swim coach who is/was swimming you 7 days a week?

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

You're a coach...what type of a question is this regardless of sport? Of course distance events are only a very small part fast twitch once you get past 20 seconds in ANY sport so its all mainly slow twitch utilization, but that obviously does not preclude the high end and getting into using some fast twitch. I'm not talking about technique in this context though. Your statement comes across borderline snarky or maybe a put down of another coach, I assume you were alluding to the technical part being important (obviously) and that was not the focus of my statement. Without knowing who my swim coach is where he got me to in 4 strokes starting from nothing in my 50's, I suggest you just stick to talking about your coaching and don't imply anything about others.

I did basically this earlier in the year for a while.
Handle (from some PVC pipe), 6mm rope, over a swivelling pulley, then down to a light dumbbell weight. One for each arm.
Seemed to work OK. A bit too much force at the catch though (due to no momentum/flywheel). Can do whatever stroke you want, but I found a wide butterfly stroke most effective. The dumbbells can swing a bit wildly, simultaneous arm swings stopped them tangling.

The bike trainer thing seems neater if you can get the stroke length and resistance sorted.

I'm not sure this is true. I think VASA ergs are like rowing ergs -- flywheel with fan blades and air resistance -- which means the resisting force is heavily dependent on how you execute your pull. The force at any given part of the pull depends on how much you are accelerating the flywheel and the air resistance at whatever flywheel rotation rate you're at. Formally, you'd have:

force = moment of inertia * angular acceleration + air resistance
= I d\omega/dt + c \omega^2,

where I is the moment of inertia, \omega the angular velocity of the flywheel, and c is a drag coefficient which would depend on the damper setting and can be calculated by the machine based on how rapidly the wheel spins down in between pulls (how the Concept 2 self-calibrates).

Quick searching doesn't show any "force curves" for the VASA like there are for the Concept 2 - so maybe something about it is proprietary or swimmers care less about having clean force curves (which I'd doubt...).

For in-water swimming force exertion on the pull is much messier since you are moving your arm at varying speed (with different parts of your arm having different speeds), as your body changes speed, through a non-confined mass of water. It's the speed of your arm relative to the water that matters and presumably drag force varies as the square of that relative speed, but there is also some lift to consider... overall not easy!

Regarding the VASA and your application of the angular displacement formula: I thought about this, and came to the opposite conclusion. The Fly wheel is most easily moved at the end of the stroke (when the fly wheel is rotating). But I haven't taken DIFEQ in 22 years and haven't practiced it at all so I could be 100% wrong about this. (and) I want to know, so kindly let me know if I am wrong.

One other thing: Gary Hall showed that swimmers travel the fastest at the start of the stroke (when drag is lowest) and thus it is pretty obvious that you would want the most resistance at the end of the stroke.

So, I think bands are a good $15 substitute!

While everyone is posting their DIY swim training equipment, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Exer-Genie. My coach turned me onto these.

Granted, from what I'm told, these are pretty old school; however, I returned my overpriced vasa Ant+ erg a few months ago (and got hosed for $600 out of pocket due to shipping) and am infinitely happier with this. I scored one on eBay for $90, which is a FAR cry from what the vasas are going for. This provides a uniform tension throughout the stroke (like the Vasa but unlike stretch cords), if that makes a difference. To me, having used both, I would take this over the vasa, no questions asked.

While you can't do both arms simultaneously (i.e., no fly/breast stroke), this thing is a beast for freestyle. It's small, affordable, and really is working great for me.


https://www.youtube.com/...QZTY_7E#action=share

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

With respect, I can think of six things off the top of my head that are more impactful than aerobic capacity in the events you listed. There's a problem and I've been guilty of this in the past too because it's how swimming thinks that it's all about aerobic capacity. Aerobic capacity is one component of successful distance swimming, but it's certainly not the most important one and it's really a byproduct of training the brain. If you start to look at building mastery of the skill of racing fast at distance events in the pool, training can take on a completely different texture and emphasis. And I would also say again, with respect, that strength at those same distances especially for a masters age swimmer is more impactful than aerobic capacity.

With regards to training 7 days a week, from experience, I would tell you without hesitation that you could be a lot faster than you are right now if you would have taken at least one day off a week. Again, with respect.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

I think you're right that the VASA should have low resistance towards the end of the stroke once you are no longer accelerating the flywheel (as you're then no longer exerting force to accelerate the flywheel). But the real swim stroke is also like this -- once your pull slows, your thrust force also weakens and your backwards force application drops to zero as you pull your arm out of the water and start the recovery phase. I am definitely a proponent of cords and they will train the end of your pull to be stronger, but the switch from end of pull to recovery feels weird because you drop from maximal backwards force exertion to zero vary quickly and you're training the back half of your pull harder than the front half.

Another reason I like the ski machine pulley. The tension is the same through out the pull. It’s also infinite amount of resistance. I can set it much higher than actually swimming, and build strength. I should also mention that I’m using the old ski machine completely unmodified. I’m sure there are folks here, with much more ingenuity that me, that could improve on the idea. I’m using it an hour every other day, and get off it feeling just as spent as an hour in the pool.

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Athlinks / Strava

This looks fascinating -- seems to be tunable frictional resistance of a cord passing over a smooth metal surface? So it could actually be constant resisting force as compared to flywheel systems. My main concern would be how such a small device dissipates enough heat if you're putting out a lot of power... but maybe the rope heats up and can radiate or conduct heat to the air when it passes out of the metal unit.

I'll address the 7 days per week first. Just to be clear I am not in this sport to get faster as the primary reason I do sport. I do sport because I enjoy it every day. I am OK if I not as fast, but the trade off is worth it. Many age groupers make that trade off. I have other parts of my life where I have maximize performance all the time, so its just not enjoyable to treat sport in the same context. It may be different if sport is all I did. My professional life, requires way more performance focus continuously with much more on the line for a lot of people if I don't perform. So by the time sport rolls around its a different focus.

I can see a point when I am retired where what you said will make even more sense, because I won't have my professional life to check how much training I can do!

On you first set of points, we are in agreement 100%. My point is during dryland, I can work my fast twitch with weights, and use other machines for slow twitch and some chords gets me to some swim specific motions. I'll use the pool for technical in general (no pool now), and I'm not in a rush to replicate pool motions for hours on end trying emulate them dryland. If my upper body is aerobically fit and fit strength wise, I'll resume pool specific motions back in the water. Does that make sense?

Tim - Has your pool reopened yet??? If not, when do you think you will??? Just curious, thanks!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

No. Neither pool we swim out of has opened. The community pool said they would update mid May on opening up. The high school pool will probably be longer before it opens.

Hope you are doing well.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com