i would sign up for those races in a heart beat (or two)

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Tim

I have wondered for the past 3 years when I started getting into triathlon. Maybe it just seems more natural since I came from bicycle racing. I know some people they are just out there racing against themselves, but do they say that because they have no real chance of actually placing in the top of their AG? Would the guy who finishes top 20%, but never in the top 5% find more motivation "racing" against people with the same fitness? In reality most people will eventually upgrade to the point where they are again pack filler, but at least they could "win" some races while getting there. Would it also make for safer race situations if the faster category guys/girls did not have to worry about inexperienced or less skilled racers be mixed into the same race field. Start the "Cat 1, 2, 3" fields before the "Cat 4/5" fields? You would never see a Cat 5 mixed in with a Cat 2 in a criterium (well maybe in a training race).

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Contemplating a multi-sport comeback

I agree that having a Category system would be a great idea for people who want to compete and work up the ranks. I would be all for it. However, a large part of the current triathlon community would have no interest in that, they are there to do tris, not to race them. I have a feeling that a Cat system would scare off some of the newer people who aren't competitive and just do it for fun.

Its somewhat difficult because of individual differences between sports. Also a big problem is you end up with more drafting issues. Since each wave coming out of the water would be equally matched youd end up with the same problems as any championship race since you have the same level of comp hitting the bike at the same time.

Your statement contradicts itself. If there are different abilities between the sports how could the whole field be hitting the bike at the same time? Somebody could be a less than stellar swimmer, come out of the water 2 minutes back, and then be a great cyclist and runner. The faster categories would become more even through all three legs, but I do not see how this is any different than a big race with a bunch of fast guys already sticking together in the AG waves. That is what competitive people want IMHO anyways. It will help push them to be faster.

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Contemplating a multi-sport comeback

I always hear that most people feel triathlon is a great sport because everyone is racing at the same time on the same course so everyone feels like an equal and there is not the elitist vibe you get at most cycling races. I think a class system is a bad idea and would mess this up.

and 'those' people would simply be in the 'cat 5' field. and nothing would really change for them.

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Tim

My take on it is the exact opposite. It would give newer people a calmer atmosphere to know they are racing with people more than likely at the same ability. Lining up with an AG field at a sprint distance race and then getting beat by 45 minutes I think would scare more people off. In bicycle racing the "eternal" Cat 4 racer still feels he as a chance to place in a lot of races, but if cycling was run the same as triathlon I think that person would have quit racing after a year or two if they were constantly pulled in a criterium for being dropped and lapped, or finishing an hour behind in a 60 mile road race.

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Contemplating a multi-sport comeback

I've wondered this for 15 years and have asked this same question here, long ago. I agree with you.

Quote:

and 'those' people would simply be in the 'cat 5' field. and nothing would really change for them.

I think the fact that you used "those people" makes Bigskinny's point pretty well.

I'm a bike racer and a triathlete. Each sport's "vibe" seems to fit well. Some of the cold, stand offish vibe in bike racing is needed. Judging others is just something that needs to be done. I don't think triathlon needs that, so I would hate to see it introduced. I like the idea of racing against my own peer group, but I think it would harm the sport as a whole.

I don't think we need catagories like bike racing. Just catagories like this:

AG
Elite Amature
Elite Master (40+)
Pro

jaretj

I think those are two very important points (ability mismatch in a given cat AND drafting). For drafting, the answer is simple- make the shorter races draft legal, which is surprisingly difficult and fun- even more so if it's a technical/hilly course. For the ability mismatch, the drafting will amplify this unfortunately. However, it's pretty simple- people who suck at swimming need to HTFU and spend less time biking and more time at the pool with a coach/team swimming 12k+ a week.

Another advantage of draft-legal is it reduces the amount of fancy equipment needed. You just need a road bike, no fancy aero helmet, aerobars (sure, shorty bars are ok, but aren't necessary) or a disc. This means you might slightly broaden the amount of people who want to come in.

AD NAUSEUM: THE DEBATE HAS BEEN DONE

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You don't NEED all the fancy aero stuff to start participating in triathlon now..

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it doesn't have to be called Category 1-5....... a rose by any other name would smell the same.

Thom: the 'those' people was meant to incite exactly what it did. (patting self on back for luring someone in)

i don't care what the intentions of those that finish behind me are. i'm there chasing the ones in front of me.

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Tim

It doesn't when you look at a wave with 100+ people in it. The majority of people will be very close together causing drafting problems. But you will still have some people that are outliers and are really good at one or suck at one etc. My point was that you can end up with the same problems of bikers having to go through good swimmers as you do in regular races so it doesn't solve that many problems.

Obv if you do ITU format it solves the problem.

If you search you'll see this has been discussed before on here. In fact I believe a STer was working with a USAT commission looking at this.

Many races have done this by adding elite amateur waves with a qualifying time that has to be met in order to race that wave (St. Anthony's springs to mind as the most recent).

I think it's a great idea, puts the fastest people with in an ability range head to head and allows people to have something concrete to look forward to for "catting" up.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I've lost a number of olympic distance races by a 1-3 minute margin due to a slower bike where I was using no aero gear. As soon as I a tt frame + aero wheels + helmet, that difference went away. So yes, you can buy speed. Sure, I could make ghetto cardboard fairings for my wheels and frames, but I haven't reached that level of cheap-assery yet.

I have always wondered just the reverse - why am I stuck in a wave of over 40 men behind the women in most races. And why are the women stuck behind guys just because they are under 40.

Of the 3 sports, your ability to swim fast (or slow) is least dependent on your sex or age.

Waves should be either dependent on a previouse swim time or a random assignment.

BTW, I just found out that in Saturdays race the women start in the 3rd wave behind the under 40 men, and then over 40 men. Great, now I get to be chicked by a bunch of women in the swim.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

There is simply NO way you could get cats racing triathlons. First off they don't tend to like water and even if we're talking a sprint here I just don't see them completing the swim. Second, do you know how hard it would be to consistently get aero bicycles sized for a cat? I mean you can hardly find small bikes with 650s, for cats you'd need like 65s, can you even get tufos in that size? Anyway, I don't want to be debbie downer but I just don't see how this is going to be feasible.

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-Andrew Saar
It is better to do the right thing and be paid poorly,
than to do the wrong thing and be rewarded richly.

Yes but you are racing.My point was that, as the sport stands right now,newbies to the sport are not running out and buying all the go fast gear just to participate, they are buy basic stuff just to get themselves around the course.The go fast,everyone is a podium boy,culture that is ST is not representative of the sport in general.

I'll take some pic's of transition at Challenge Cairns in OZ next month and I'm sure eveyone here will be surprised at how low tech many of the bikes are..

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you made my day

I have seen a squirrel water ski and a dog surf, so maybe a cat can do a triathlon.

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Contemplating a multi-sport comeback

Part of the race is crawling over slow swimmers, weaving through slow bikers, dodging the speed bumps on the run. Embrace it.

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