That's true. You definitely can become a good swimmer without doing flip turns. But at the same time you will become a BETTER swimmer if you learn them. You only need to learn how to do it once; the benefits which have been discussed throughout this thread are then applied to every single lap you swim thereafter.

if you're someone reading this thread who is contemplating trying to learn flip turns, but your hesitant b/c you dont wanna invest a bunch of time. i'll chime in and say i learned them (to the point of being, maybe, 95% proficient) in one day. so while for some people it takes months or more, it isn't that way for everyone. you might be one who learns faster so its worth at least trying.

I have tried and given up. I got a screwed up nose and can't really breath out my nose very well. I blame this on why I continue to suck water in when I do flip turns. I've tried humming and other type of tips from good swimmers to no luck. Thus, 25 years of open turns.

I really tried today...my goal was to swim and just work on flipping over...the first 3 times I got the most incredible brain freeze - I wasn't breathing out. Then I went back to regular swimming - the 3 attempts completely took me out of my workout, I had to really think about exhaling under water. Then at the end of my work out, I tried 3 more flips in the middle and really struggled getting my breath out. The good news is the flip was easy; but I have to figure out a way to breathe and not get the brain freeze/dizzy feeling.

I will try again tomorrow.

Noseclip?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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i have a used a nose clip and it works okay and allows me to concentrate without having to worry about getting water up my nose. You just look like a synchronized swimmer!

Yep, I always use a noseclip, except in OW or if I'm doing something like a kick set where I know I won't be flip-turning.

Like some others here, I've been flip-turning for so long that I don't think much about it any more.

BTW, Jason, I'm reading Taormina's book right now. Great stuff!

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

A bunch of really good backstrokers have used noseclips as well to allow them to extend the underwater dolphin kick.

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Few of my friends do flip turns in the pool, thus they are real swimmers. I do not do flip turns in pools, thus I'm not a real swimmer. With that said, in every tri we've competed, I've come out of the water well ahead of them. If I were competing in a pool, I'd do flip turns. Since I've never done an indoor tri nor any plans to do one, I'll stick to what works for me. If that means I'm not a 'real' swimmer, so be it. I'm not interested in being a real swimmer, I'm interested in being a triathlete.

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The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

BTW, Jason, I'm reading Taormina's book right now. Great stuff!

glad you like it. It has a ton of useful nuggets.

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I think the argument is "All (or almost all) real swimmers do flip turns." It's not "all flip-turners are real swimmers." I myself am a clear counterexample to the latter claim. ;)

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

Agree. It should be intimidating and damaging. The number of people ill prepared for the swim portion is disturbing. The more the sport caters to that behavior, the more ill prepared they become. Sorry off topic...

Back on topic....

Do flip turns.

tj

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Badig| Strava

TunaBoo--I hope you're not giving up, nor finding yourself too intimate with the floor of the pool.

I, earlier on in my swim career, had similar issues with coming off at too-low a tangent. Sounds like you're massively under rotating before you push off. Over the years, my flip turns got better and it's a non-issue except every once in a while when I barf up the turn. That said, one thing that really helped was:

Tuck your chin into your chest and think about trying to shove your head up your ass as you flip.

Seriously. :-) (And it's probably appropriate for most of us triathletes too! :P)

Carrying more speed INTO the turn helps, too. Good luck everyone who's trying to learn!

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

I am going to do full flip turns today, even if it kills my yardage!

Inspired!

Suicidal!

Good luck, dude!

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

I've been thinking about doing that myself. What is it that makes holding your breath so hard when you're on your back? One of the true swimming mysteries.

Hazarding a guess - when you're on your back, water runs into your nose unless you're exhaling solidly. Whileas on your front, you can just hold your breath and it won't come in. So you have to exhale forcefully if you don't have a noseclip, and then you run out of air.

I'll fess up here - I'm at the point where flip turns are natural and second nature, but I can NOT swim with a nose clip. Can't do it - I don't know why - it just feels like tons of pressure builds up. And thus a promising (not) backstroke career is extinguished in its infancy.

That's pretty much it. I think it's less common now than it was back before the 15m rule was put into place, at least I haven't noticed it as much.

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Notice how majority of the responses here from those who do not know how to do flip turns justify why they don't need to learn it. I do flip turns because I know how to do it. I do track stands on the bike because I know how to do it even if I never do track racing. Whenever you learn to do something new - you become better. It's really that simple. Nothing to justify.

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I thought all 'real' triathletes strive to learn new skills. If someone is genuinely interested in being a better triathlete shouldn't they try to become better at all parts of the discipline? AFAIK flip turns teach swimmers to become better at streamlining which is a base skill.

Just because you aren't stroking your arms on the surface when you push off from a flip turn doesn't mean you aren't swimming. You are still using your body to propel yourself forward in the water, being able to do this underwater is a useful skill that has helped me more than once in an open water tri (beach start race where you have to dolphin dive through thigh-deep water, swimming under a crowd of people at a turn buoy, swimming under a slow pack in front of you, etc...).

I think flip turns are critical to open water success if you train primarily in a pool. If I swim a 1000 with flip turns then I do one continuous effort with no breaks (just like OW), if I do open turns it is like doing a series of consecutive short intervals at low intensity. You lose the mental and physical feel of going non-stop for the duration of your swim.

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Powertap / Cycleops / Saris

I respectfully disagree. When most people do a flip turn, they push hard off the wall and propel themselves underwater for several meters, which is is not swimming and most definitely not training that is conducive to open water swimming. I choose to swim as much as possible. Not push and glide every 50 meters. But again, to each his own...

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Born 1973 - Died 2??? Life is all about the dash...

You're overthinking this. Really.

Most people push off the walls regardless of open or flip. you can choose, if you want, to do a short push or a long push off a flip turn. Whatever floats your boat. But don't pretend that an open turn better simulates open water swimming when every experienced swimmer is telling you otherwise.

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you don't grab a wall in OWS. it is continuous. Flip turns mimic continuous and the lack of breathing time mimics being splashed kicked etc and losing a breath.
and if you suck as much as I do you don't push off that far. I get much further from open turns.

Thanks for a great question. On a side note, here's the first of three videos on how to do a fast freestyle flip turn: http://www.theraceclub.com/...p-turn-the-approach/