welcome to the itu 10k race series (preceded by a warm up swim and bike).

and the run is so exciting to watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

---

Where would you want to swim ?

I agree with you on the bike, but not the swim. The swim determines the number of packs. You get 3 good swimmers coming out of the water together and that might be enough to keep the lead throughout the bike. Sucks though when you see only one good swimmer come out and then have to wait for the pack to catch up otherwise they expend too much energy.



I do agree overall with your rant. I think they should do away with the draft legal crap and make it a true individual effort.

There's a lot of tactical stuff going on that you're not aware of.

I discuss with my athletes more things about race outcome before a draft-legal sprint than for an IM.

---

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Realize that TV coverage is what sells a sport. The daft legal ITU is a formula that makes interesting television for the casual viewer because it NASCAR-izes the field by keeping it close. That's why they do it.

Compare it to IM coverage where they have to fill it up with "special interest" stories in order to make it interesting for the average viewer.

this is a common misconception that i think a whole lot of people need to be relieved of. i used to be very much of the "drafting isn't 'real' tri" mindset, but since i started paying closer to the ITU, i've changed my mind completely.

check out the splits of the most recent ITU race: on the incredibly tough course at cornerbrook, tim don swum a 17:28, biked a 1:04, and ran a 31:49.

it's not that there are 'weaker' swimmers, or a pack who 'spin easy' to T2: they're all very fast, and some are a touch faster than others. on flat courses these guys are always under 1 hour for the ride: in a pack on a crit course, that's not an 'easy spin.' and there's no two ways that you have to run under 31 minutes to be a contender in the ITU now.

at any given ITU event there are 10 or 20 guys who could podium; at M-dot races there are 2-4. if NBC makes ITU races look boring, it's because they cover them poorly and give no indication of the sort of high-speed tactics and breakneck pacing going on. too, i think NBC's coverage would be frustrated by the fact that they couldn't get a toehold on some sort of melodramatic 'human interest' story, or people crawling to the finish line, a la hawaii; instead it's just all sorts of fast guys with foreign names and not enough pain on their faces.

you should check out the (excellent) coverage at www.itutv.com, which gives a much better feel for how the races unfold; if you give them a chance i guarantee they'll change your mind. better yet, go watch an ITU race. i'll be at edmonton this weekend!

-mike

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

But tv coverage of time trials in the TdF is fairly exciting, even for casual fans. Think about when Ullrich was pushing it in the rain and fell. Nobody is going to be that interested in the NYTri or any other minor race. But I thinkgthe Olympics raced as a time trial would be exciting (more than the current format), and the bicycle portion would also look cool enough to give it some appeal.

'would look cool enough' to be exciting? the only reason you've given for the TDF time trial being cool is that jan crashed. well, if they put more hairpin turns on fast descents, and lined them with hay bales, they might get more cool crashed in the ITU as well.

-mike

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I'm glad you posted this iron_mike. I've found it much harder to continually race at changing paces during a race than to just tt my own pace for the entire ride and then get off and run a respectable 10k.

Contrast the race that was described above to the Ironman the past few years. With the exception of Normann last year, a large group of the top men came out of the swim within a couple of minutes or so of each other. They played a cat and mouse game on the bikem. Then, the fastest runner of the bunch won. Again, 2004 was one of the only years in recent history when the race was won more on the bike than anywhere else. It just takes a little over 8 hours to see the outcome instead of less than 2.

---

Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

The other thing to consider about the NYC Tri was that it was a very weak field. No Kemper, no Potts, no Fretta, no really strong foreigners. No fast swimmers.

Cornerbrook was a relatively weak field, but immensely stronger than NYC, and it WAS an exciting race.

You can't base the excitement of ITU racing on NYC. That'd be like watching Ironman Japan, where a 41 year-old got second, and from that race drawing opinions about Ironman Hawaii.

I didn't see the coverage so I can't comment on that specific race, but I certainly did enjoy watching the ITU race in Tempe (live at the venue, not on tv). I watched Hunter lead everybody out the swim, sit at the front of the lead pack, get in a breakaway, and then outrun everybody. Hardly the sign of somebody sitting in.

Then there are races like Athens where Allen runs Harrop down in the final K after coming way down off the bike (while sitting in). Two different race tactics and both of them took guts.

Winning an ITU race involves a combination of fitness and smart race tactics (not that other non-drafting events don't). If triathlon is only a TT to you, then I guess ITU isn't triathlon. However, I would suggest looking into it a bit more. I had little interest in ITU racing in the past, but I really enjoy following it now. Especially with Texans, like Marsh, in the mix:)

JD

I hope you're kidding when you say that a weaker swimmer and cyclist could hang on and draft the whole way and blow everyone away on the run in an ITU race.

A weaker swimmer doesn't make any of the lead packs and therefore has a better chance of getting lapped and dropped from the race on the bike than he does in blowing anyone away on the run.

Do you have any idea how strong these guys are on the bike? You can't fake it out there with these guys. Greg Bennet was down my way training with his wife Laura earlier this year and would come out to the Sunday group ride which is probably the fastest in the area by far with a number of Cat 1/2 cyclists and some of the best AG triathletes in the country. Greg sat on the front of that ride for 2.5 hours at 30+mph the whole way. When he wasn't sitting on the front he was riding next to the pace line at the front catching wind. These guys can absolutely fly and will tear a weaker cyclists legs off making them obsolete in the run.

Like others have said already, there are a lot more tactical decisions in ITU racing than in other formats as well...miss a break and your day could be done before the run is even started. Most triathlons are decided on the run anyway, even IMH for almost every year except last year, but you have to be able to bike and swim well enough to stay in contention up to that point.

Not trying to change your opinion. Just trying to give you some insights that may make you appreciate it and enjoy it a little more. I know I thought a lot like you before seeing a couple races in person and having the opportunity to see a couple of the top pros in the world training for a few months.

---

Fit2Tri Multisport
http://www.fit2tri.com

I never said the athletes aren't amazing.

My point is this...

Put the same group of athletes in a non draft legal format.

Are the results going to be the same?

---

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

The elites did not enjoy an easy spin on the bike. Maybe it appeared that way via the tv editing. From what I saw they were going extremely fast.

why don't you work on your run?

---

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

I'm doing speedwork tonight actually.

Should be fun, it's only 98 degrees and 99% humidity.

---

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

I would say so. Hunter Kemper won the Escape from Alcatraz '05 against a strong field. 4 ITU guys in top 5. The best swimmer in the field was 5th.

---

"In the blocks you're a prisoner, the gun releases you."

that's sort of like saying:

"i know the guys in the tour are pretty good athletes, but would the results be the same if they were at the world mountain bike champs?"

or, more to the point,

"i know the guys at alcatraz/wildflower/hawaii are good athletes, but would the results be the same if they raced in the ITU?"

the answer to all three is of course not, and i don't really see the point in asking. it's apples and oranges.

-mike

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Well then I like apples and I don't like oranges.

---

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

Let's See.

Craig Alexander won Chicago (non-draft), LA (non-draft), Boston (draft) in 2004, and Lifetime (non-draft) in 2005. He also won a couple of high profile half races.

Hunter won countless drafting races, placed 3rd or so at Lifetime 2005 and won Alcatraz in 2005. He was also 2nd male by a few seconds at Lifetime in 2004 behind Craig Walton.

Potts has won both drafting and non-drafting with Memphis in May.

Simon Whitfield was 2nd at Lifetime in 2005, first male at Lifetime in 2003, and won some small draft-legal race in Sydney in 2000.

If you are talking about draft-legal guys in IM racing, I'm sure that Lew Kidder will chime in, but the training is too different to do an apples-to-apples comparison. But, those are the best guys, I'm sure that there are other examples...but no one usually talks about the 10th-20th place IM guys either.

---

Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Probably not, but I'd say more likely due to the tactics of the race than the drafting itself. The strongest athletes are going to come out on top more often than not in either format. Hunter Kemper is a great recent example of someone having success at both draft legal and the ITU format this year. When Macca was racing short course he dominated at both disciplines as well.

At that level its VERY hard to get away on the bike regardless if drafting is allowed or not, so you're going to have a 'pack' in either style of racing. Even look at the elite wave of your local sprint races, the top guys usually come in pretty close off the bike and the one who has the best day on the run wins the race.

---

Fit2Tri Multisport
http://www.fit2tri.com

Obviously they've won their share of draftless races, they wouldn't be in the ITU circuit otherwise. If you were to take the same exact field, same conditions, etc. and put them in two races, one with drafting and one w/o the winners would be completely different.

I'm just saying I don't like it, that's all.

---

Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

what don't you like about it?

-mike

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Nothing like a little hyperbole, eh?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Sorry, should have used 'at' instead of 'on'.

Regardless, he didn't sit on anyone's wheel and was driving the pace the whole way. Basically, he's extremely fast and he and Laura were both incredibly nice as well.

I never realized how strong those guys were on the bike until I actually got to ride with one of them. Absolutely incredible.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

---

Fit2Tri Multisport
http://www.fit2tri.com