:shrug:

I pretty much do. My technique is good enough, and I don't suffer from te swim boredom's that so many seem to have. I get in and swim. Some days I go harder/faster/shorter and other days I go easier/slower longer. The most I do as far as breaking it up is to do 500 yard sets.

I would have to guess that it is personal preference when it comes to swimming; also heavily dependent on your level of swimming background. For those who have been swimming for a very long time it is more a focus on maintenance rather than training. I for instance have been swimming competitively since I was 10 years old (now 23). Since switching to a triathlon focus my swim training consists of a very simple training strategy: dive in, swim 2-2.5miles straight, get out. I repeat this 4 to 5 times a week and I am good to go. Seems to work well for me as I have posted 00:52:00 and 00:50:38 swim splits in my only two IM races.

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I'll do an entire swim as one long set. The first few hundred yards is a warmup, then I'll pick it up some for a while, then ease up for the cool down. If I do intervals, it's done with a 50 yard easy swim between sets instead of stopping at the wall. Depending on the race I'm training for, I'll swim a total of 2000-3500 yards all as one set.

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Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!

disclaimer: I am not a good swimmer, or a good student of the sport, or a swim coach. I'm just some guy

That said, a few things about swimming

1. Most 'swimmers' don't train for OW swims, they trainer for relatively short distances, so it makes sense that normal swim workouts are so interval based

2. Swimming is very different than running in that there is little damaging load put on the body when going hard, so more intervals makes sense

3. Swimming is very different than running or cycling in that oxygen intake is limited. I have no idea what this means but perhaps it is part of the equation

4. Triathletes are already getting plenty of general cardio work, and swimming is the shortest leg so long sets in the pool may be a waste of time. In other words, perhaps by 'accident' training like a swimmer is the best route even though an ironman swims much farther than a typical swimmer?

then again maybe triathletes have it wrong. For those few open water swim specialists, how do they train?

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Jack is spot on. Swimming is low impact, so you can push harder/faster, and get used to swimming harder/faster without the impact you would recieve running intervals on a track. It's pretty much that easy as far as pool swims. Training for open water is a bit different, just hop in and go long, think of this as your Z1/Z2 long runs.

Basically, the only way to get faster at swimming is to practice swimming faster...

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I wondered the same thing several months ago. What I was told was that in swimming, when you swim a long, straight distance without stopping, your form breaks down and for quite a bit of the swim, you are not swimming with great form. So it is better to do intervals to maintain form.

There are several reasons to stop frequently:

1. To breathe
2. To maintain sanity
3. To get the fog out of the goggles
4. To interact with others
5. To make sure nobody is screwing with the stuff in your bag
6. To pee (while defogging the goggles and interacting with others)

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Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

When I was life guarding at the University pool, there was a local dude who was a channel swimmer and he would train at the pool. He would show up, put about a dozen bottles on the deck by his lane and swim non stop except to drink every so often. Not sure if he changed up the speed at all, if he did in was hard to tell.

on sundays we opened 12-5 and he would be waiting to go at 12 and would leave at 5. This is what he did most days. He was a good swimmer, His Ironman swim times were in the mid-low 50s, like 52-55 mins.

im not sure if he was a talented swimmer or if that much yardage just made 2.4 a fast workout for him. that being said, his overall IM times were around 13-14 hours consistantly. The dud was sort of chubby.

I hope you get out of the pool for #6.....

;^)

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They just swim longer intervals... and more metres. Yes most swimmers race short distances and train by doing shorter intervals but they typically train more hours/volume than many runners or cyclists. They have to be able to swim a lot of volume in competition. If I had 2 races and a relay on a given day that means 5-6 races. 1500 for the initial warm up and minimum 1000 cool down after each race and a short warm up before the other races ... for example

AM Prelims
1500 w/u
200 Fly (race)
1000 warm down (5 x 200 with specific times/rest to maximize lactate clearence)
600 w/u
800 Free
1200 warm down (same as before...)
5300...

PM Finals
1500 w/u
200 Fly (race)
1000 warm down (5 x 200 with specific times/rest to maximize lactate clearence)
600 w/u
200 Free (relay leg)
1000 warm down
4500... daily total 9800

this was a normal day at a swim meet for me...

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There is a ton of misinformation on this thread.

Swim training is interval based because it's low/no impact. It has a very quick recovery time so you can sprint, do vo2 max intervals, do threshold training, every day and twice a day if you want.

If you could run intervals every day and recover from them (not physically possible - you'd get hurt), you'd train like that for running, too.

The races also lend themselves to intervals. You do not become a fast 100 butterflier by swimming a lot of easy freestyle. There is some place for an extended swim in training - distance swimmers will sometimes do a 30 min TT or a 3300 for time --- and I think it's sensical for tri swimmers to do some long OW swims (open water, though, not in the pool where you get to "rest" on turns).

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

The swimmers who do train for OW swims still do a ton of pool intervals. That's why they're fast OW swimmers :-)

Yes. You can get away with intervals every day, twice a day, etc.

I don't think this is why we train as we do. Think about people who do marathon swims (literally 26.2 miles swimming) - their o2 is quite limited for awhile.

HAHAHAHA. Take a super good cyclist; doesn't mean that cardio will transfer over to the pool. Long sets in the pool are a waste of time only if you're not swimming them at the correct intensity. We're going to have to define "long" here. Long straight swim, beneficial (I think) only under the condition that you're in pure OW. Long sets: ABSOLUTELY beneficial. You will get more ROI doing long sets than you will swimming the same distance easy and w/o stopping.

I think jkenny does a lot of OW and when he was posting on my Fishtwitch threads, his workouts were a lot of intervals. The big difference is the workouts were like 10-12k.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Special case :-) most triathletes can't get away with that. Actually, the only way you're going to get away with that is if you have a good swim background. You must have had some seriously nice pool times in HS and college!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I think you linked to an article a while back, or maybe it was FlaJill on the swim training that the OW 10K Olympic swimmers were doing. I remember one day of training was something like:

AM: 5 x 1500m on 17:30
PM: 5 x 1500m on 17:30

Sure, it's one day and probably one of the harder days, but they still have to build up to it and they're not doing it every day.

I just swim. I'm not a fast swimmer, but I'm not a bad swimmer. I suck the least at swimming. What I've heard is that your form breaks if you swim long distance in one set. I try to focus on my form be it lap 2 or lap 80. Around lap 100 I'm just ready for it to be over usually. I only stop to take a drink or if someone I know jumps in the pool I may stop and talk a bit.

Jay

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45 AG triathlete and terrible BMX racer, Tampa FL

I'd dare say that interval-based workouts are better for pool workouts than steady pace stuff because most people will do the "steady" swims too easy to generate performance improvements when paired with a zillion opportunities to get a mini-rest at each turn. In most cases, the intervals would be designed to keep you on pace but not give you a crap-ton of rest. I often design my main sets to start at steady (but not easy) pace then push up the pace at the end (but not eyes-bleeding all out). I concur with Tigerchik that steady swim workouts are best done in open water where they are more specific to the demands of the actual event.

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Take a super good cyclist; doesn't mean that cardio will transfer over to the pool.

The sad thing is, the cardio *does* transfer over to the pool. It's what allows that cyclist to schlepp their heavy, dragging legs from one side of the pool to the other.

my take on the overall question is, along with issues of impact and mental sanity, so much of swim training is about working on technique (at least for swimming-impaired triathletes), which is either far less of an issue, or not an issue at all, in running/cycling training.

Form's the easy part to hold onto once you figure it out. It's holding form at high speed that gets you- even relatively short intervals are enough of a break to let you hold significantly higher speed than if you swam straight.

As for workouts, lots of intervals for the serious open water crowd. Wish I could find it now, but I remember reading an article about Chloe Sutton (elite 10K woman since age 13) doing an awful lot of 100s in the pool during training sessions.

I pretty much train in the pool like I train on the bike. Or better yet I train in the OW like I train anything else.

Show up, get a little loose. Swim for 2.5 miles or so. Get out and stretch. During the swim I'm constantly gauging how fast I can go without crossing the line to the point where I'll have to stop. A bit faster her a bit slower there. Always focus on a good catch and glide. The only downside is I get pretty dizzy in the pool from all the fip turns

FWIW I'm a sub 1 hr IM swimmer.

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

why would you get out of the pool?

There is one big difference. When you take a break on the bike or run you are not going to die from lack of air. My first season of swimming was more about breathing than about any kind distance/speed. I never had to even think about breathing in other sports. Also there is no wrong way to pedal or run. Just some slightly more efficient ways. There is a huge difference in water between good and bad technique. One guy commented to me that he wished he had better cardio for swimming. I have all the cardio I need; I want better technique.

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Warning: Username does not in any way apply to triathlon past and future performance.

7. To say "Hi!" to the cute Tri-girl in the next lane.

:)

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Punching cockroaches from day 1.

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http://www.tri-junkie.com/

In Reply To:

Was thinking the other day in the pool as I was swimming 100 sets why we don't run or bike with the same structure?

Last summer I tried just that - and it worked out well for me. All OW, I swim parallel to a road and have determined "markers" approximately every 125 yards (they somehow total 600 so I'm off here and there). Day 1 - long moderate, sometimes doing "adventure swims" (just swimming around to different parts of the lake until I get tired). Day 2 - warm up then sets of 300s with some stroke and speed work included. Day 3 - warm up then interval sets of 125s w/o a clock, so I go when I'm ready. Day 4 - short and fast then right onto the bike for 40k. Usually adds up to about 12,000 yds/wk.

Very similar in structure to my in-season run week (long, tempo, interval, brick).

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Eat right. Get lots of sleep. Drink plenty of fluids. Go like Hell.

I tend to cycle and run mor elike my swim sets more and more. I always was told to never run hard in the winter. Hard equaling my average. I can still average a slow 8 minute mile by doing 1/4 mile on @ 10 mph, 1/4 off @ 6 mph (my common winter tread mill workout.) My spin workouts are EXACTLY like swimming. One leggers, backward, heavey, up, down, one arm climbs, etc. As spring approaches, I will run striders and drills into every workout generally accumilating 2-4 of techniques and drills. I like to spend at least 2 day per week all year round on the track. A common spring/summer track workout would be:

warm
2 miles ez on the road.

drill
10 x 75's
25 jog-25 drill-25 run out
butt kickers, hi-knees, cherry pickers, 2 foot hops, kareokes, backward running, hurdle drills, ham stingers

main set
1. 4(400 5k race pace-100 walk recovery)
2. 3(800 10k race pace-400 ez jog recovery)
3. 1600 5k race pace into 8(200 @ 1600 race pace with cross-field-walks)

drill
1600, striders on the straight away, ez on the corners

run down
ez 2 mile road run

My triathlon distance is sprints-oly's-and 70.3's. No IM's at the moment

If you ask me, my running and cycling looks alot like my swimming sets. But that's just me. Running & cycling like you swim will make you run faster. I feel that most triathletes "that I personally know" put quality time into proper cycling and proper swimming and run to survive. My challenge to anyone is always to create every workout with purpose. I like the 2-2-2 or the 3-3-3 deal... that means; 3 days of swimming, 3 days of cycling, 3 days running per week. if it's done correctly I have seen tons of success with 2-2-2 for sprints and oly's, but 70.3 need 3-3-3. I like to average 5-6000 for swim sessions, 2-2 1/2 hours for cycling sessions, 1-2 hours of running per session. for me, 2 days a week on the track running properly (I do like one 15 mile run per week) has been way more effective then 60 mile p/week (for oly's).