how well (or not well) would an outdoor velodrome work, do you believe?

I've been looking for a place since I got back from aeroca,peat ero. this winter and it's tough to find somewhere in nyc. the kissena velodrome in queens looks like one of the best options. Thoughts?

or does anyone have a good field testing site down near 9w ?

Can you avoid the braking by going up hill? You could use a hill that's too steep for a loop by just doing a one-way. Maybe 3% to 6% slope (or steeper if you can do it in your TT position), and long enough so that it takes maybe a couple of minutes at your highest speed and power. Longer is fine. Doesn't have to be constant slope: it can be flat or shallow then steep; or it can stair step. Low traffic, sheltered from wind if possible, or at a time of day when it's calm and traffic free if not. Then you do multiple runs up hill at different speed and power. It's the mirror image of coast downs.

Outdoor velodromes can work well, as long as you don't have a lot of other riders at the same time, and the winds aren't gusty.

People have used Kissena: http://nyvelocity.com/...ess/the-shen-method/

Because I have better things to do with my life besides saving an extra two watts.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Because AMAZON delivers while ERO, LA LSWT and A2 do not.

Thank you for having the courage to speak up! Perhaps now we can end this aero madness once and for all. After all, the gains are tiny and insubstantial and certainly not worth bothering with. I hope all triathletes listen to BLeP. In particular, I hope everyone in my age group listens to him, it would make my life so much easier.

Armored suburbans and guys with guns :)

The main function of the facility including the track at this point is training civilian personnel (and private security i think) going overseas in defensive maneuvers. Say their convoy gets attacked and they are the only one left to try and get away they have to know how to drive a weighed do suburban and break through blockade. It is pretty neat to watch they do it right outside my office window. Setup two old caprices across the track bunch of guys set off a fake mortar, jump out of the woods with paintball guns and attack... then they smash a car through the blockade. It's so fun to watch


I'll look at the other stuff too.

Ah. Triple Canopy? CQD? Someone else?

Edit: the high school should be workable. Especially early in the morning during the summer.

BSR http://www.bsr-inc.com/

They only do training don't actually provide any security as far as I know.

Will scout out the HS (that sounded creepy), hadn't though about that sort of location until recently. I think there are some industrial parks in an area I've never really been since moving here, may detour home one day and scope it out. I'd been thinking roads the whole time, which just suck here condition wise.

Can you avoid the braking by going up hill?

Will Aerolab work with that sort of protocol? I'm not sure what you are describing. It sounds like repeats of a point to point run...? I thought your protocol used continuous data.

Because I don't care that much.
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Train safe & smart
Bob

Im not getting aero tested due to the cost involved, where the testing would be (as I am sure there is none near me in ohio), the fact that my flexibility while in a process of getting where it needs to be is no where near there, and finally because I am not anywhere near where I need to be in order to worry that much about it. When I get to an average speed of say 24 MPH for over 50 miles then maybe I would consider looking into it.

Um, no, it'll work with point-to-point runs. However, with Aerolab you either have to squint to block out the segments where you returned to the start or else you'll have to cut-and-paste. One wish for the wish list is for Aerolab to be able to "stack" runs on top of each other (another wish is to "mirror" out-and-backs"). If you could stack you'd just line up your two (or more) runs and find global estimates of CdA and Crr that make the VE profiles match. A check would be to compare those two (or more) profiles with the actual one.

In my case, when I do odd things like one-ways up a hill or straight out-and-backs, I drop into special routines I've written so I can either stack or mirror.

But, yeah, the protocol works on any terrain, and for loops, one-ways, or out-and-backs. I think I give an example on slide 42 of that presentation. With this protocol, you can use flat or not flat, constant speed or variable speed, one-way repeats or loops or out-and-backs, climbs or coast-downs.

Waiting for technology to make it cheaper and more accessible.

However, with Aerolab you either have to squint to block out the segments where you returned to the start or else you'll have to cut-and-paste.

How would I even find the start point with all the braking necessary?

One wish for the wish list is for Aerolab to be able to "stack" runs on top of each other (another wish is to "mirror" out-and-backs").

Would these be defined with a lap or interval button? GPS trigger?

In my case, when I do odd things like one-ways up a hill or straight out-and-backs, I drop into special routines I've written so I can either stack or mirror.

Are the routines available and user friendly?

Out and back runs are the easiest to pull off where I live, and that is probably true of a lot of people. What I'd really love (along with a pony ;) is a user friendly app that will use your protocol along with a constant wind vector for each out-back pair. It would key off "known" elevation at each end point to acheive convergence. I know how to do it, but not how to code anything.

Set an interval marker? Once you know where to start, if you know the hill is X km long it's usually easy to spot subsequent runs.

I wrote them for me, so they're available but probably closer to user hostile. But you could also do it with your Excel spreadsheet.

The physics of this stuff works whether the runs are continuous or not, flat or not, constant speed or not.

I wrote them for me, so they're available but probably closer to user hostile. But you could also do it with your Excel spreadsheet.

I recently discovered that Poweragent doesn't even mark intervals when exporting .csv format. It makes it very tedious to set up the file. I don't know if GC would do this.

The physics of this stuff works whether the runs are continuous or not, flat or not, constant speed or not.

Yes I know. That is the beauty of it. The issue is how much futzing around is needed with the data if you aren't doing loops or have to brake. And the limitation of windlessness. A user friendly app that would deal with out-backs and wind would be the holy grail IMO.

I'm pretty sure it does. There is an Interval ID in the cells on the far right when you export. It remains at "0" until the first interval is picked up, then it displays "1", all the way down until your 2nd, 3rd, etc intervals start. Unless they changed something in a recent update.

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Because I live in Idaho and there are no options around here. Shipping my bike and flying out to somewhere to get tested would cost more than my bike did and would blow my racing budget for the entire year. If there was somewhere within a 6 hour drive of me, I would start budgeting for that now and try to go over the fall or winter.

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The plural of anecdote is not data. :-)
- Andrew Coggan

Yeah, if you're not doing uninterrupted loops there is some futzing around. The question is whether the futzing around is more trouble than hopping in the car and driving somewhere you can do uninterrupted loops.

I'm pretty sure it does. There is an Interval ID in the cells on the far right when you export. It remains at "0" until the first interval is picked up, then it displays "1", all the way down until your 2nd, 3rd, etc intervals start. Unless they changed something in a recent update.

Doh! You are right. It's the ID column, between HR and Altitude.

It depends entirely on the nature of the air movement. The more air movement factors, the greater the uncertainty of CdA estimates.

I have used outdoor tracks in years gone by quite successfully, but had to choose time of day when air movement was minimal and booked the track for private use. Outdoor however means you are subject to weather, and one cannot predict things like rain/wind which can be a pain if you have to book track time well in advance.

Often for self testing, one needs to have an opportunistic approach to take advantage of good days when they arise.

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http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au

Often for self testing, one needs to have an opportunistic approach to take advantage of good days when they arise.

Which is why it would be awesome to have software that would work with out-back runs and wind. Much less restrictive, and has the added benefit of being conditions more like what you'd encounter in a race (ie some wind). The down side is that accurate numbers will require more runs.

If you know the wind, you can add that now in Golden Cheetah.

really ? how do you do that ?

thanks