The arguing thing really detracts from the topic. I see that you are toying with him, but I also see where a lot of people may read this with similar interpretations of the labeling and draw the same conclusion.

I'm sure you'll eventually spell it out for him.

In the mean time, and to perserve your game, let say we are lookin for a long chain version of maltodextrin. How can we be assured that the more expensive options (carbo pro) are actually providing this?

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

Okay, I love sweet potatoes, but never tried this. I always grill or bake them. Is there a strategy on the microwave time? What about the sticky goo that comes out as they cook? Do you dice them or eat them like an apple? Carry them in a plastic bag or paper towel?

I'm very excited about this option.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

Wow, not sure where this thread is headed, but let me ask another question...

Where does everyone think these different companies get their multodextrin from?

I don't think it is possible to trace where each manufacture actually sourced it's ingredients from, but if you did you would find that most roads lead to Rome. Rome in this case being GPC or one of the few other true manufactures of multodextrin. Just like every other product you buy these days you pay for what that company adds to the product (a name, superior craftsmanship, customer service, convenience) not the raw ingredient. With that said, I think it's fairly safe to assume that if you want to make your own sports drink just buy the raw ingredients at the cheapest prices you can find (I'm sure that's part of the business model where every you where buying from) and add your own value by mixing in soy protein, electrolytes, glutamate, caffeine, a sweet potato, your face to the outside of the container...

I have used Carbopro, Perpetuem, etc. in the past and am looking to reload with something to use for the rest of this years training and events. I don't know if it matters to how the body uses it, but according to Wikipedia, Maltodextrins are classified by DE (dextrose equivalent) and have a DE between 3 to 20. The higher the DE value, the shorter the glucose chains, the higher the sweetness, the higher the solubility and the lower heat resistance.


So there appears to be a difference in its physical properties. As for how the body uses it, my brother is a food chemist, I'll ask him...

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http://arnieenz.blogspot.com

Not the person you're asking, but you can't find out it what chain it is other than faith.

Again, I don't know anybody who has reported any problems or differences with different suppliers of maltodextrin, so I doubt it's a significant difference. If it is, I sure would like to hear about it. Given the thousands up on thousands of prior professionals in cycling and other sports who have used maltodextrin (before it was more profitable to for a pro to get PAID to drink a branded malto-mix) , I'm sure there would have been a big stink about it if it really did make such a big difference.

I tend to look pretty skeptically at those that insist that there is a big difference functionally. The few backers of this theory that have stepped up to the plate here on ST were folks who worked for sports drink companies and were clearly vested in justifying their higher cost. (I do give those guys credit for being open about their affiliation in their posts, though.)

Me too.

Anybody care to chime in?

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Here is a long list of potential multodexrin a company could get (im sure there is others)... if you ask for a brochure/ they will hook you up with info (how long the average chain is)... more info than you want probably. Word on the street is that a lot of people use the Maltrin QD M500 for sports drink use... not sure how reliable that info is though.

Also I agree there is not going to be a big difference in suppliers/maltodextrin since once that stuff hits your mouth it is breaking into glucose faster that you probably think (salivary amylase know its job).... I've often wondered if this low osmolarity marketing with multodextrin is only valid in the water bottle and not in the stomach. Lot's to think about, but in the end try it in training, if it works, do it in a race.

Agree. I actually strongly suspect that if I just drank sugar water with short-chain stuff like glucose and dextrose, it would work just as well. Sugar is sugar and it's going to get absorbed if you're burning off your stores. Malto might sound better since the long chain stuff could have a longer metabolic consumption rate or something like that, but honestly, the major factor is going to be the net calories in, regardless of what type of sugar it is. I'd probably just go with the sugar water, except that table sugar actually costs more than malto and also gets so sweet that it's hard to drink when you put 1 cup per bottle in. Malto's nice because it's not too sweet, and cheap as heck.

You need to do a lot more homework.

Probably not.

Here's a drink I used to use as my main liquid caloric nutrition. Entry from wikipedia. Please note the highlighted primary 1st ingredient, and even the 2nd ingredient. Sucrose & dextrose. I know a lot more folks on this forum still use this as their main caloric source and still do fine.

The original Gatorade is based on oral rehydration therapy, a mixture of salt, sugar, and water, with the citrus-based flavoring and food coloring added. The composition of individual Gatorade products varies depending upon the product in question, as well as the country in which it is sold. Gatorade Thirst Quencher contains water, sucrose (table sugar), dextrose, citric acid, natural flavor, sodium chloride (table salt), sodium citrate, monopotassium phosphate, and flavoring/coloring ingredients; some Gatorade flavor variations use brominated vegetable oil as a stabilizer.[39] An 8 US fluid ounces (240 ml) serving of Gatorade Perform 02 (Gatorade Thirst Quencher) contains 50 calories, 14 grams of carbohydrates, 110 mg sodium and 30 mg potassium.[40]

Quick primer on "sugar":

Sucrose (table sugar) = glucose + fructose
Maltodextrin = a long chain (between 3 and 17) of glucose molcules
Dextrose = glucose

So the main benefit of maltodextrin is that you can add calories to a drink without it becoming overly sweet, compared to if you were to add table sugar or dextrose.

You try being a type 1 diabetic with trying different sugar combos.
FWIW malto's have a slightly 'slower' blood sugar spike, glucose obviously the quickest (yeh yeh, i know you know all this). The kicker is malto (lots of) wrecks my gut on the run, as does fructose (well too much anyway). Which leaves downing glucose powder/tabs like no tomorrow.
So when your tossing about sipping down a water/malto combo wondering 'i wonder if i got 17 chains with my malto!', spare a thought for us diabetics who are trying to test our blood sugar on tri bars whilst not trying to lose too much time, as well as having to have a big ass bento box full of sugar so we dont crash and burn! This is all ofcourse after having to whip out a gel mid-swim while your tredding water so you dont drown from a hypo! And then in t2, on goes the spibelt (even if its a 5km sprint!) full of more sugar goodness with a separate blood glucose monitor on board....try checking your blood sugar while holding 3m40sec kms! Blood just flicks off your finger everywhere! Now wheres my violins?!!

Pffffft...i whizz on your malto :P

stick holes in it all over with a fork

I think it was something like 2 minutes, rotate, 2 minutes, in the microwave.
then just put it in your pocket

if it was a big potato we would cut it in half, and rub a little salt on em.

no goo came out.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Going to try this for the weekend long ride.... (sweet potato, banana, and water) which will be:

65g of carbs (mostly fructose and sucrose though ;)
5g protein
65mg sodium
1200mg potassium

Looks a little low on sodium, so maybe i will salt the potato a bit!

Sounds like you need to work on your basal insulin rates and/or race morning nutrition. I wonder why malto "wrecks your gut?" Is that with the same grams/hr consumption rate as the simpler sugars you use.

Most if this chemistry lesson is over my head......

One question though. Will the caloric values be the same for all types of Malto and CarboPro?

I am a CarboPro user and burn through those tubs quickly. A cheaper alternative would be great, I'm just interested to know if I loaded up the same amount of a bulk Malto into a bottle am I getting the same # of calories, or is there some variance.


-Al

Jack,

I came across this recently:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/....T8Y2IUNBjcQ.twitter

In many ways, Bananas still the best.

Sure they are not useful for certain situations, but for a 2 - 3 hour ride - perfect!

Why make it so complicated??

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

yeah, for most, food is food.
dump 300 calories per bottle into your water bottles is more convenient than hauling around 6 bananas though =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yup, as long as it is dry, just weigh it out 4 calories/gram. Sometimes the density can be different so you may wish to check how many gram your "scoop" of choice hold if exact calories/gram of sugar are very important to you. For all practical purposes thought there is not going to be much difference.

But I love having bananas hang out of my back pocket, so it's worth the extra burden to haul! Also, I have one of these in the pocket too if I really want to treat myself on a long ride! Or squeeze a mint chocolate Gu onto the banana... that is a real treat.

Oh no no no! Carbo Pro is a magical formula of maltodextrin that has special properties only available in Carbo Pro. Didn't you see the clear explanation of this by MeltingPunk? Me neither.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I'm not an expert on magic, so I defer to him on that subject. However I read a book about science and slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Funny, I always find a bible in the drawer.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

That is one of the minor benefits to malto.

Hammer gives a very good and easy to understand summary of how short chain (simple sugars) & longer chain (maltodextrin) work once it is ingested. Yes, Hammer is selling you a product, but the basic information that is contained in this article can be easily verified. http://www.hammernutrition.com/hnt/1275/

I'm not trying to pick a fight or insult anyone, but it is obvious by some of the statements made in this thread, that a lot of folks don't understand or care what happens when "energy drinks" go down their pie hole. If you are interested, investigate beyond the article. If not, you can choose to just keep throwing simple sugars into your body, then complain that you didn't have your nutrition "nailed down" for the IM that you spent 8 months training for. Your choice, not mine.

I'm still using it. I bought a 50 lb bag a couple of years ago and sold most of it off. I'm pretty minimalist so I avoid calories depending on the length/intensity/etc. I only use it for biking because it's inconvenient for runs. I used to have a formula I used to calculate the specifics of malto, sodium, magnesium, etc. Now I just add 2-4 tbsp of malto, a few sprinkles of salt, some crystal light, and fill up the water bottle. I've found it works just as well and is much less hassle.

For a little extra kick, I'll throw in half of a 5-hr energy drink. I'll drink the other half before starting the ride/race. Works great.

I can't do sweet potatoes because I don't like the taste, but I usually take a banana or apple with me. Maybe a few oreos too. Sugar is sugar and it's a great excuse to eat an oreo.

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