Total noob question but I don't spend much time in this section these days. What is LC?

Long Course (half or full distance events)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Much appreciated

except that when we do write about $700 wheelsets (as i recently did) or $499 direct drive smart trainers those reviews don't interest you. it's only interesting to you when we write about something expensive, so that you can complain that we did so.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Sure tech is always improving in every sport and I don't think that's a bad thing. However, the costs in other sports are just massively insignificant in comparison to bike costs. If I'm a pure road runner or soccer player I can buy the best footwear tech for under $300. Even ski and snowboard tech, which is considered expensive by most, is far cheaper than bike tech. I'm struggling to think of a sport you couldn't kit yourself out with all the top tech for less than the cost of an entry level tri bike.

Last year I didn't enter any races - focus was on high altitude mountaineering. This year I will enter silk road mountain race. Year after my goals are ski touring related. I like the triathlon training and it's great fitness for other pursuits, but the races are not really appealing to me and the tech (and just high costs in general) contributes to that. Fwiw I'm not suggesting I'm the norm, but if it puts me off I'm sure there are others who are relatively fit, doing a decent amount of training, but not interested in racing.

General reply. I think there is a difference between triathlete, and someone who does triathlon.

I fit into the latter. Played a sport in college, then pursued career and family. Once those things were well established and I came up for air, I decided to look for a challenge to force myself to better refocus on fitness and health. Doing a "race" gave me motivation, and forced my commitment. I think there will always be a large demographic like this to market to, and I think this is the lifeblood of maintaining the overall community.

There is a subset that then pursue being a triathlete. That is great, more power to all of you. This is where the tech and $$ marketing is directed. Are there still some "triathletes" that are cost conscious? Sure. But many others, for whatever reason, like to invest in all aspects of who they identify as.

But you are comparing the cost of an apple to the cost of beef and complaining that beef is expensive. So what is the scale in each sport, that's probaly the more accurate way of looking at each sport and how they handle the "tech costs".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

😂 They separated on good terms,although my daughter di say it's not right he talks to me now

cheap stuff reviews is SEO poison. But pearl clutching about "growing the sport" is the cover for complaining about high end race stuff they don't want to pay for but don't want their competitors to be able to use.

Not to mention those $300 shoes mentioned get replaced every 250 miles and we are putting on 50 miles/week vs a bike that lasts a lot longer. And the argument that we aren't using those are trainers is right but if someone wants to take equipment to the extremes...

Side note - my first "carbon plated / thicc-soled" shoe, the Asics Magic Speed 2 retails at $150 and isn't hard to find at $120. This is one tier down from a pure racing shoe - more performance training. Though good enough for Daniela Ryf to race in. I remember the $100 barrier for running shoes being passed during my HS track days in the early 90's, so that's not terrible.

Given I've long since converted to pure cycling and don't often do running races anymore, I'm no longer qualified to review shoes. But I'm sure finding no problem with my Magic Speeds. They're fun and springy!

I don't expect them to last much longer than 250 miles given the thin AF tread. But this is a "tempo/racing" shoe. If you want a daily training shoe, buy a daily training shoe. If you can avoid the pearl clutching of your training miles being a few seconds slower per mile than they othewise would be. (royal "you" - I struggle mightily with pearl clutching during training).

Those $300 should, actually $250-275, should last way longer than 250 miles though. And it’s sad that normal training shoes are now pushing $150+ so the difference between a trainer and race shoe is shrinking making $250 for a faster shoe not seem as big of a jump.

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Twitter - Instagram

And there is the case. You can buy less expensive and high quality equipment across the board but it's the highest priced items that are being looked at here. And you bring up a great point that they are good enough just as you have pros winning on less than $15k bikes.

Alphaflys are $275 and when they first came out, supply was so low and people bought them up so quickly that you couldn't get them for under $400. Again, all extremes and they are "back down" to $275. But no, they don't last more than 250 miles.

And the reason for trainers not being carbon is to save your legs and the fact the non-carbon are less expensive means you can beat up the trainers and fly with carbon. But I digress...

Back when I started shoes were like $60, I stopped for a while as a lot of my equipment stopped working and I needed to focus on other things. Now I come back and training shoes are $150 and then I also needed to buy a bunch of running clothes. Like jfc just running is expensive. It's a good thing I already had a p2 from years ago.

Gym has a lot more social media presence too so I think young people are more likely to lift than anything. Considering a gym membership is $15 and will make you cool. We need some quality triathlon tiktoks tbh. Something to get you hype and make it seem super cool to get younger people in. We need triathlon tiktoks with people that aren't just white dudes on cheap Chinese equipment that look cool. I think a lot of young people are also getting adjusted so I think they could manage an hour a day volume but no more.

I don't have a problem with that. The innovation is what's fun to read about, and innovation almost always gets released at the highest tier of product.

I remember on the UK Top Gear when they tried to have a segment every show for "value cars" and after a season of that they admitted no one wants to watch a segment on the Ford Mondeo. So they went back to fun cars.

Kinda hilarious that people still think the carbon in the shoes matters. It's 99% the foam, maybe 1% the plate. Regardless, I'm still using my OG vaporflies that I purchased back in 2018 I think? Only race in them, so it's not like they get a ton of miles.

Reason training shoes don't have the plate is because it doesn't matter. No training/recovery stimulus by having it in, just makes you run a bit faster by increasing the toe-off distance of your shoe.

Yep. $9.99 Planet fitness is popping up all over town. I’m a member of a $20 a month Genesis (chain that’s growing like mad), because they have a 25m pool. I’ve been doing S/B/R and gym for over 40 years. Other than gravel, bike is dead here. Running is still doing well, but dreadfully watered down by race saturation. Triathlon is dead, with only one local Olympic/sprint left. But the gyms are going crazy, they are everywhere and packed. I’ve never seen them this popular. Cheaper than I’ve ever seen them, and no special equipment needed. Looks like todays rage is the gym, and pickleball. Heck, my wife and I went to Acadamy Sports, spent about $40 on a pickleball starter pack, and go to the free courts down the street. The cheap, simple insta sports are taking over.

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Athlinks / Strava

Hey Dan, what I was pointing out is an opening or gap in market coverage. That is something a of publication can pounce on. Triathlon Magazine Canada went with high end and Ironman coverage at least in most of what I see. The market gap in coverage someone like you can fill and I think it would be valuable to many. I am not complaining about ST coverage. I was commenting on industry wide coverage that is slanted towards the Ferrari end of reviews. I think the entry triathlete is a good demographic worth servicing that it seems many are ignoring. Is that an opp for ST to fill? If I talk to entry level triathletes many are even intimidated to come here.

Would be glad to contribute in the future in that capacity but at this point in life taking on additional responsibilities is tight. Maybe a few years from now.

here is what i have learned over 24 years of publishing product stories:

1. nobody EVER comments about how helpful it is that an entry level product was reviewed. but like clockwork i'll get snarky hate comments every time we publish on a top-range product.

2. when we publish on halo product it's not because we necessarily think you all should go out and buy it. when we publish on dura ace electronic 12sp it's because this is the direction shimano is going. in 2yr you'll find 105 12sp darned near as good at half the price. when we publish on a $1,600 or $1,200 direct drive smart trainer the features and specs will show up in a $500 version in 3yr or 4yr.

2. while tech trickles down, it only trickles to a certain level and that's possibly more than you want to spend (even $500 for a direct drive smart trainer). if you look at what people actually buy, it tends to be what we write about. what does not sell is the product people say they want. for example, where are the $1,500 or $2,000 tri bikes? they don't sell, you won't buy them, so they aren't in the product catalogs of the major players. now, having written this i can almost promise you someone will post to this thread about a $1,500 or $1,800 tri bike and, yeah, somebody is selling it. and when i count bikes in kona there are 7 of them. or 12. as opposed to 500 canyons and 600 cervelos. there is no reason canyon can't make a $2,000 tri bike. the problem is that they can't sell $2,000 tri bikes. that's not the canyon people want.

i don't mind your theorizing, but as a manufacturer (formerly) and media type guy (for the last 2 dozen years) the people who complain bitterly about expensive stuff getting written about don't want to hear that a typical tri bike maker's mean sale price is, say, $6,500 or so. but that's the reality.

all that said, i think you're right that there's an affordability issue and one of my and eric's plans is to bulk up the classifieds forum as that place where affordability exists. pros closet got too choosey in what it wants to sell, and you can't find the $1,500 or $2,000 tri bike there. but that bike exists on the secondary market and we have plans for that forum.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That's incorrect. The shoes are fast as a system. There are 100% pebax shoes that are not fast at all. And they're wide platformed shoes and heavy daily trainers. They have to be because the foam is not stable in a narrow platform. So it's probably more of a 80/20 piece.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I found my first tt bike used on CL for free. I put $500 in it with tires, Chinese base bar, used Renn disc, used brakes. Got the brakes off here in classifieds.

That thing flew!

I also like that idea. Nobody new to a sport needs flashy brand new. I was a fairly elite junior golfer and half my bag at any point was used clubs.

People always forget that an “also ran” competitor is infinitely greater than a “I quit cause I cannot buy the expensive fast stuff”. The person out there on a used Schwinn is a hero, the complainer at home is a freaking zero.

look, i'm not so old i don't remember when i started in this sport. my first race bike was a used raleigh international. my second race bike was a used colnago frame, onto which i swapped the used parts from my original used bike. i did not buy my first NEW bike until i'd been in bike racing, and then triathlon, for about 7 or 8 years. when i show pics of my first kona, in 1981, that was on the "new" used frame onto which i swapped the used parts.

i bought flatted sew-ups for $5 each and i cut the thread, unwrapped the casing, pulled out the latex tube, patched the tube, sewed the tire back up. that was my "new" race tire. i bought what i could afford, raced it, upgraded when i could. i wish i was as fast now on my new fancy stuff as i was back then on my patched tires and used frame and parts.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

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Hahaha...I used to fix my flatted sew-ups as well and none of my friends could understand why I wanted their old flat tires.I got pretty good at sewing those things.
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