Excellent observations. I started in '84, first IM was in '15.
Similar to 5k's, 8k's and 10k's. Everyone "has" to do a marathon.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I have a 4 day (3 ski days) trip to Whistler coming up in January. Staying in a small, studio Airbnb, lift passes, travel (no flight, but a boat and 4 hour drive), and food will be around $2k. I have my own gear so no rentals. Doing a catered chalet would probably be a $10k+ week. A standard, 3 star hotel room with no breakfast is $400/night. A standard meal is around $80/person (we are talking an average beer, burger and fries type thing at a pub).

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Long Chile was a silly place.

For the actual off the couch "newb" triathlete, who is inspired by IM's coverage and "you can be an IM too", the single highest performance metric will be training. Consistent training whether with shit equipment or the best equipment from day 1 will improve their performance. So that means that if you just tri, your going to likely improve. Especially the athletes who truly are the run of the milll athletes who are using the sport to inspire themselves and others to live a healthy lifestyle. So the biggest performance metric for them will be healthy training.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

How much time has your new gear reduced your bike by for 70.3 or full and how much has your FTP increased?

That aside, like 99% of all finishers unless you are going top 10 does it really matter if you finish in 13:30 on cheap equipment, or 13:20 on expensive equipment?

The race is you against you...

For the actual "average" person coming into the sport....you arent buying your way into massive improvements. You just aren't. You arent running 12:00/mi and then buying nike super shoes and running 9:30/mi. You arent getting a $20k super bike and going from 15mph to 19.2mph. You are going to get 1.2mph faster type of "improvement" (which is a lot). Your not going to swim 2:10/100yd and buy a wetsuit and suddenly in ows in an non-downhill swim, swim 1:50/100yd paces. Like you arent going to buy yourself that type of improvements. Yes buying "free speed" is a real thing. There's no denying that. I'm with you though that a for the 1st time avg newb athlete coming into the sport, they aren't going to "buy" themselves into massive improvements. Like a truly average athlete is simply going to get faster by S-B-R training.

Whether running 12:00 min/mi or 11:42 min/mi, your limiter isn't going to be "I need to buy my way into improvements"....it will be "I need to train".

And also this idea that the avg person will get demotivated by all the great equipment when they are on their huffy so that'll keep them out of the sport long term....guess what, that person doenst give 2 fucks about your super bike. They will be smiling and likely a hell a lot more happy than half the people out there, and they don't give s shit about their AG finish. Just go to a local race and watch the last half hour of events. Those people are emotional about the race, they don't care about their equipment limitations.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yeah, a 10 minute difference in 13 plus hours could be attributed to anything from a "problem" bladder to a bad attitude, a flat tire, etc., etc.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I haven’t read through this thread to see if it’s been mentioned already, but this post made me immediately think of the tri-bundle packages that websites would sell when I get into the sport.

For $2000-2500 you’d see the bike, shoes, helmet, wetsuit, and a few others things in it for your first race. It made it seam reasonable and easy to know you were buying everything you’d need all at once.

After 12+ years of tri racing and another decade of running -

every minute counts! Even if you're not winning in any awards!

FTP is barely better than it was 7 years ago, maybe at best 15 watts on a good day, most of the time equal. Yet I now average 6 minutes legit faster than my 2.5 yr old prior self on every Oly course I've done in the past 2 years, and went from just having a top 20% bike split to being in the top 5 overall bike splits in these local (yet still quite competitive Norcal tris) in every race in the last 2 years. Even had the fastest one outright last year. So it's a huge improvement. My bike time improvement was the biggest factor in my USAT improvement for sure.

And does it feel good to kick my old self's behind - hell yes!!

In all seriousness though, even in these local races, the arms race on bike and now run gear is so fierce that if you're not using a TT bike with good aero optimization (race wheels, aero helmet,etc.) you almost have to put out pro-level watts to keep up with the guys in front if you are using a nonoptimized entry level road bike equivalent. And even if the run, if you're not using some sort of running supershoe, you're giving up 1-3 minutes against a well trained competitor who's using them effectively. Add these together and it's nearly impossible for even a highly trained AGer without the right gear to compete effectively (that would be my not-that-much younger self, who I now crush timewise, but am about equal fitnesswise.)

Again, I hate to say it, but money was a huge factor in my improvement, possibly THE major factor, as I trained pretty hard beforehand, and have barely increased my training volume in comparison.

But lets make sure we are discussing the same issue. What you seem to be bringing up with your n = 1 is how to maximize your ability in the sport. What we've been discussing is "participation" numbers. Your point isn't all that relevant imo with the 1st time adult average athlete getting Into the sport. They aren't going to be able to buy themselves that type of improvement except on the bike; especially if they are on a huffy/hybrid knobby tire style of bike. Hell changing to a slick tire would be an massive upgrade on a budget. There I just "super shoed" your huffy improvement for $100 bucks. So I think if we've all heard all the stories of people getting into the sport on a tight budget / second hand, then your issue isn't necessarily relevant to actual getting people into the sport. And again let's acknowledge that at the basic level the sport is an "expense" because of S/B/R equipment, so yes saying it's an expensive sport at default is a given. The idea that you have to upgrade your equipment to go out and enjoy the sport is bogus. YOU choose to want to do that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Hah the first timers expenses are still horrifyingly high compared to other endurance sport


But even to compete locally you’ll be head to head with people like me with too much gear

But 1st timer isn’t competing against you. They aren’t even competing for their AG. They literally just want to race and finish and see what the hell this sport is about. Sure some have more aspirations but the true off the couch average person is just showing up and racing. They don’t give 2 fucks that you beat them by an hour in a sprint with all your ST approved gear.

They aren’t analyzing their nutrition intake, they aren’t worried about their watts, they are worried about just getting to T1.

Again by default tri is an expensive endurance sport. Saying that offers nothing to the point of getting people into the sport. I and others are suggesting it’s not even close to way it is based on stuff like your comments,

ETA: I think you are missing the room entirely with your comments so to speak. True 1st time beginners are doing an experience like nothing you describe it as.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

My daughter's ex boyfriend just contacted me because he knew I'd done triathlons. I'm helping him out with his first tri. It is a bit intimidating to get started, especially if you don't know someone to walk you through it.

I went through this process with a bunch of teenagers around 10 years ago. Walked them through all the steps. They (and their parents) had me as a resource. Now they know what to do when they enter a tri (they are all mid 20's)....all pretty good athletes, but none of them are doing tris for now. I hope they circle back, but they have been all too busy with university then new jobs, then the $$$. But local racing around here is not too expensive.

I started racing a little over 20 years ago, directly out of college (where i raced bikes but had no swim/run background.) Moved to Boston and joined a local Tri team. it was great couple of years, lots of social events, a training weekend and plenty of different people to learn from. "70.3" as a brand didn't exist and actually as far as i remember no one was focused on long course. it was all about local sprints, olys, and a few halfs ( that have since been bought and dumped by IM) Also weekly events like low key bike time trials, weekly pub 5ks and group swims etc. it was a real community feel, a lifestyle as much as a sport. it was this lifestyle aspect that has kept me in the sport and allowed by to branch to xc skiing, gravel, kayaking, and skimo with the same enthusiasm.

As I've moved further and further from the city, I've been doing all my training solo. If I entered the sport of triathlon this way(combined with a focus only on one big long event,) I probably wouldn't stick with it for very long. i think to get people back in this sport we ( the experienced ones) need to step up and give back at the basic level. Those weekly bike TTs, 5ks and group swims didn't run themselves. Someone who cared took the time to make them happen. if you count on IM to get people in, it may in the short term. but in the long term it will burn up and spit out the majority of folks.

- I'm not sure a "chalet" is the same thing in N America and Europe.
- It's generally accepted whistler accomodation is really expensive. Go anywhere else in Canada (other than Banff) and it would be considerably cheaper.
- Lift ticket pricing model is completely different in EU and NA. EU is relatively cheap day passes and more expensive season passes, NA is eye watering day passes and cheap early bird season passes. I guess whistler is over $200 per day now, somewhere like 3 valleys (biggest resort in french Alps is about 75 euro per day.
- I actually did a ski season in whistler back when el furnies did $5 main courses. Quick Google suggests it's now $9 for burger and fries and $6.50 for a draught Kokanee. For a huge meal old sphagetti factory was our go to, Google suggests you can now get starter, bread, main course, ice cream, and a beer for $27. Even with taxes and tips neither of those are getting close to $80. That's not to say you can't blow crazy money eating at places like araxi and bearfoot.
- Europe flights are crazy cheap also.

Out of curiosity I just went on crystal ski which is one of the more popular UK ski tour operators. At the end of January you can get a week skiing in Italy - flights, transfers, hotel, buffet breakfast, dinner with unlimited beer and wine, ski hire, and lift pass for under $1100(USD) per person based on 2 people sharing a room.

Fwiw in my ski bumming days I used to spend 3 months skiing in British Columbia for less than $4000usd (flights, lift pass, accomodation etc.). But that was sleeping in hostels, hitchhiking, no alcohol or restaurants etc. I'm not talking so long ago either! That was the winter before COVID. Granted things have went up since then.

Not as intimidating as calling your ex girlfriends father.

I personally don't like the idea that I can train more than someone, be fitter than them, yet they beat me due to them having a top spec bike while I'm on my aluminium bottom of the range canyon endurace. Imo that is a genuine problem and it does put me off pursuing triathlon more seriously.

Sure for some people the goal is just to finish and for them it maybe doesn't matter. But if I'm signing up and paying for a "race" I'm going there to race. If I simply wanted to finish or beat a previous pb I wouldn't even bother signing up I'd just make my own route and go do it (actually this is my current preference).

Triathlon has a huge barrier for entry. Even with the most basic equipment, there's a significant cost. Then there's the time factor. I also don't think the average triathlon competes for "overall experience" with some of the potentially more exciting races out there now. For instance I've signed up for the silk road mountain race this summer $550 for 2 weeks bikepacking through mountains of kyrgyzstan which imo seems vastly more exciting and memorable than the average iron man.

If you are so 'serious' about racing how many hours a week you putting in, what's your FTP watts per kilo, what's your swim pace, what's your 5,10 and half and full mara times?

Get those reasonable and then worry about the minutes you are giving up with equipment..

Imagine if zwift offered some kind of super expensive premium account that gave people willing to shell out a 1 or 2% increase in power. Would people be saying don't worry about it just train more or would there be outrage? In triathlon it's the norm.

To me there is no point in a race where I don't know how much of it is fitness and how much is equipment. That's why I don't enter races. (And it goes both ways if I was on a superbike I'd be wondering if I really deserved X place and how much was the bike). Now I just do my own thing, and see if I'm improving and beating my old times. I'm actually quite happy like that in my own little bubble - it saves me a ton of money on expensive equipment and race fees.

Honestly, I'm not trying to complain. Life isn't fair, there is already an uneven playing field on biology alone. I don't want super bikes banned, in fact i quite enjoy seeing the new tech. I'm simply pointing out why I have little interest in signing up for races and I expect there are others that have similar reservations about triathlon.

What I'm getting at is enjoy the training, enjoy being healthy, enjoy the journey, enjoy the incremental improvements and enjoy the events. Don't let a worry of equipment put you off.

Unless you have picked off all the low hanging fruit does it really matter if you come 150th instead of 146th?

Enjoy the process, and then if it really becomes the type of passion that you want to become competitive you will find a way to make sacrifices in other parts of your life to find the money to find something faster.

Plus, lusting and dreaming over that next fancy piece of bling is fun. Life needs dreams..

I don't do tri anymore, but when I did I raced on a secondhand 2012 p2c with a set of the original Flo wheels, a fairly cheap setup that can be purchased easily in most places. I was also chasing a sub 4 hour 70.3 and could have taken my pro license if I'd decided to stay focused more on tri. Cheaper gear isn't really holding you back.

Not saying there aren't people who pass due to the existence of fast bikes, but I think the total elimination of the 140.6 mile full ironman distance would be better for the sport than the elimination of superbikes. Bring short course back again, those are distances it actually makes sense for age groupers to do.

I get that I'm an outlier - but I did / do the sport to keep fit. 30 years ago I could finish pretty high up, now not so much. My current bike cost £550 12 years ago - even I know that it is not doing me any favours, but I'm not really that bothered. I know what times I can still chase, and that's what I go for. Fitness / mobility is still what's important to me - I know that I need a new bike but I'm not going to the Olympics, so why would I need an Olympians bike?

My wife however, got into triathlon and then decided to do an IM - she bought all the gear, including a good bike, did her IM and has barely ridden it since. After doing a couple of seasons of local races, the IM was her last race.

Everyone's different - I did a half IM distance race this year, and it was obvious that I had the worst bike on the course. Triathlon is a rich persons sport, as we all know - I didn't see many beginners bikes out there - even on the later finishers.

They should have a set of approved equipment so you can't use a bike that costs greater than 3k.

They should lower prices for demographics that are underrepresented. The big problem with triathlon is that it reaches very limited demographic groups.

Honestly, I want some reviews on Chinese carbon. They're not a bad deal tbh, if they compare well to a normal tt bike then that would lower the barrier to entry.

That’s fine. But let’s also be real and talk about what sports don’t have a tech arms race in said sport. What sport is “pure” out there that it’s truly Mano y Mano. The answer isn’t many. So with your line of reasoning you’d never really participate in any event for a sport? It would just be you vs you.

Seriously what sports are out there that don’t have a tech/gear component that thus make it “unfair”?

So that’s fine to have that line of thinking. I just think it’s unfair to say tri has that and not mention all the other sports that have artificial advantages as well. Again what sport are you considering that doesn’t have artificial advantages based on costs? If that is your line in the sand I don’t think you will participate in said sport events very often.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

For everyone wanting a price point requirement in our sport, I’m actually in favor of implementing a race progression requirement. Sprint-olympic-70-140

You can’t show up for your 2nd race as an LC event etc. learn the sport, learn about the training. I’ve been on that bandwagon for almost 10 years now. Especially as I think it would allow for long term lifestyle enjoyment much more than “how quickly can I get to my IM”.


It is funny though that almost every pov in this thread mentions what they’ve seen from LC events.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II