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When do you shift from big ring to small?
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New Di2 user here and I have a question. Here is Shimano's default setting for full Synchro Shift.


It seems like it would be more efficient from a chainline perspective to shift to the small chainring earlier. I have to think Shimano has this as a default setting for a specific reason but I'm not smart enough to know why that is. So my question is, when do you normally shift into the small chainring?
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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Diechrome wrote:
New Di2 user here and I have a question. Here is Shimano's default setting for full Synchro Shift.


It seems like it would be more efficient from a chainline perspective to shift to the small chainring earlier. I have to think Shimano has this as a default setting for a specific reason but I'm not smart enough to know why that is. So my question is, when do you normally shift into the small chainring?

Mechanical here, but I usually shift at 1-2 cogs before I hit the ends of the range.

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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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Shifting the FD is such a large gear change that I typically get momentum loss (shifting to the small ring), or need to reaccelerate my cadence (often by standing) (shifting to the big ring). As a result, I only shift the front when I'll need to be in that ring for a sustained period (90sec+) and the other ring is a non-option (i.e. no cog will get me a usable gear/cadence). I also tend to shift one cog in the back around the same time to minimize the size of the gearing change.

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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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for me its very dependant on the terrain i'm on, or more specifically the terrain i'm expecting coming up.
in principle though, those settings seem to be very in favour of using the big ring with an early upshift and late downshift. i can only assume that is due to the better efficiency and wear characteristics of using more teeth - this maybe outways the minor chain bend.
i'm not sure if chainline is necessarily always optimised for the middle of the cassette anyway, though it seems logical

i've never used synchro shift and can't imagine i ever will but looking at that i'd be thinking to set it to 3 rear shifts - a too small gear jump is more easily managed than a too large one, though then there is a lot of gear change happening which can be problematic
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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Diechrome wrote:
So my question is, when do you normally shift into the small chainring?

When I am feeling weak.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Real Ironmen do not have a small ring, they have a big ring and a bigger ring.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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I think you’re right. It’s trying to only shift to the small ring when “it” thinks you’re going to be there a while. Hence, a late downshift.

Naturally I shift my FD with 2 or 3 rings left in the range. And normally shift my RD 2 rings At the same time to keep the ratios close.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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I've tried both full and semi syncro several times and always go back to manual. It seems like it should make life easier, but given how comparatively jarring a FD change is vs. a RD change is, I don't want to be surprised by it happening automagically. Also, when in Semi, I just change down or up 2 when I move the front so the system doing it for me at exactly the same time was unnecessary at best and disjointed at worst.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have Di2 but that's pretty much how I shift with my mechanical stuff.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Diechrome wrote:
So my question is, when do you normally shift into the small chainring?


When I am feeling weak.
I was going to say when I run out of gears...
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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Diechrome wrote:
New Di2 user here and I have a question. Here is Shimano's default setting for full Synchro Shift.


It seems like it would be more efficient from a chainline perspective to shift to the small chainring earlier. I have to think Shimano has this as a default setting for a specific reason but I'm not smart enough to know why that is. So my question is, when do you normally shift into the small chainring?

Shift, what is shifting? 1x all the way


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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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I live in Charleston, SC. I never use the small ring. Ever....
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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TriBriGuy wrote:
I live in Charleston, SC. I never use the small ring. Ever....

So you agree with Thomas?

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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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When on road cadence drops below around 75rpm in 3rd lowest gear on the big ring.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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TriBriGuy wrote:
I live in Charleston, SC. I never use the small ring. Ever....

I could see using the small ring if you have a solid headwind up the steeper side of the Ravenel bridge (from Mt Pleasant to Charleston IIRC). I remember having to put out a decent amount of watts when I got hit with a solid crosswind to stubbornly stay in the big ring when I visited last New Year's.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Keithh] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the responses. I'm going to adjust the synchro shift settings and see if it changes my perspective. I want to like it because of the simplicity, but I don't with the current setup.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
jkhayc wrote:
Diechrome wrote:
So my question is, when do you normally shift into the small chainring?


When I am feeling weak.

I was going to say when I run out of gears...

After about 30 miles... wish i could to 50 before going to the small ring.

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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]
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For road & crit racing, I set it so I can fully cross chain, but it’ll shift to the small ring (and drop down the cassette) if I look for an easier gear while already doing so. Unexpectedly dropping from the big to the small ring is awful, mostly because it’s nearly always under load.

None of what I wrote above applies the opposite way. It’s much simpler to set up small to big.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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I think this is somewhat dependent on your power and average terrain. I spend a lot of time between 175 and 250W on mixed terrain (roughly 500-1,000 ft per 10 miles of elevation gain). I run 52x36, 11-30 Shimano Ultegra on my road bike. Due to fears of dropping the chain, which only happens going from big ring to small ring, I've grown accustomed to staying in the big ring all the way to 28 (2nd largest cog) and then shifting down to small ring and up on the casette, giving myself effectively 3 climbing gears. I tend to shift in the big ring when I know I will stay there (as another poster already mentioned), so as to minimize the back and forth and risk of dropping the chain.

Obviously dropping your chain with Di2 is far less likely, so I think you just do what feels most natural. I find it annoying how often I have to shift in the small ring when accelerating, so I get into the big ring pretty quickly. As a result, I tend to avoid the 7 smallest cogs when in the small ring.

CG
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [CeeGee90] [ In reply to ]
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CeeGee90 wrote:
I think this is somewhat dependent on your power and average terrain. I spend a lot of time between 175 and 250W on mixed terrain (roughly 500-1,000 ft per 10 miles of elevation gain). I run 52x36, 11-30 Shimano Ultegra on my road bike. Due to fears of dropping the chain, which only happens going from big ring to small ring, I've grown accustomed to staying in the big ring all the way to 28 (2nd largest cog) and then shifting down to small ring and up on the casette, giving myself effectively 3 climbing gears. I tend to shift in the big ring when I know I will stay there (as another poster already mentioned), so as to minimize the back and forth and risk of dropping the chain.

Obviously dropping your chain with Di2 is far less likely, so I think you just do what feels most natural. I find it annoying how often I have to shift in the small ring when accelerating, so I get into the big ring pretty quickly. As a result, I tend to avoid the 7 smallest cogs when in the small ring.

You know, I think the only times I've dropped a chain on a front shift (also mechanical Ultegra, R8000 generation) was when I was shifting under load. I know current generation Shimano front shifting is excellent, but you can still drop a chain if you shift under load. So, if possible, I'll unweight the pedals a bit - I think we used to do this all the time earlier on, even in the 2000s, but I guess front shifting in general has improved quite a bit.

Aside from that, I basically use the same rubric as you for the most part. I can tell when I'm in my 3rd biggest cog, as the chain is just a bit noisier. So, I know that if I want to downshift, I probably want to shift in front, then one cog smaller in the back.

I do sometimes make a tactical decision to stay in the big ring and use the biggest 2 cogs if I know it will only be for a short stretch and I want to not bother disrupting my rhythm to make a front shift - even if I don't unweight the pedals, it is still a minor disruption to my rhythm.
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Re: When do you shift from big ring to small? [Diechrome] [ In reply to ]
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In full syncro, if connected to a head Unit, it’ll tell you if the next Shift is chainring. If I know I Will eventually continue to Shift Down (or up), I usually just shift one more time and get the chainring done with and then one back again
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