That's tough to say for me. I am not familiar enough with the two products to have an informed opinion on both of these.

I will say this, these are the criteria I look at in a tire, and I have a bit of a tire fetish:

• How is it made? Is this a hand-made "open tubular" construction or a more automated manufacturing process?
• What are the materials the tire is made out of?
• How many plys? What are the various ply layers made out of and why?
• What is the TPI count: Threads Per Inch offer some insight into the density of the tire's casing weave, a strong hint at it's ride quality. Generally, higher=better. Currently, Vittoria is one of few companies that label their TPI count on the packaging clearly. That is a good idea, but I wager few consumers understand this information.
• How much does it weigh? Weight is a factor in tire performance. To a degree, lighter is better. That said, a tire can be made so light they are too frail for general use.
• What is the durometer of the tread material? Hard? Soft? Multi?
• Tread pattern? What is the idea behind the tread pattern?
• What is the real size of the tire? (Not the manufacturer's claimed size on the label). Not all 700X23c tires are the same size.
• What is the bead diameter tolerance? How does it mount?

This is an exceptionally good thread. Tires have more to say about a bike's ride quality than frame material and they are an inexpensive and highly effective upgrade.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Vredestein Fortezza Tri Comp.

They always get great reviews. They are perfect for my training & racing needs.

Michelin Pro Race has proven to be a great tire for me. The ride quality is exceptional. This would be my top choice. I agree with Tom about one of the most underated tires which is the Vittoria Rubino Pro. This is an excellent tire. It is not their top of the line tire, but it has great feel and has great durabilty at a bit of a cheaper price. Hutchinson's feel good, but they don't seem to last too long. I love Continental MTB tires, although I have never had Continental road tires. My LBS swears by them though. Even though I will propbably get some Conti's soon, my top vote goes to Michelin Pro Race or Pro race 2.

For racing- Vittoria Corsa CX tubular on TT bike, Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution clincher on road race bike (Schwalbe are a team sponsor so I get a great deal, but I wont race on the Schwalbe tubulars as they are actually Tufo)

For training I use the Schwalbe Blizzard as they are pretty cheap. I run an old tire with the bead cut off as a liner with thornproof tubes. Its heavy and slow, but I train by power and time so I would rather be riding than fixing flats.

Diamante Pro lights are really not indended for daily use. They are a very light weight clincher probably better suited for uphill TTs. The only reason why I think a manufacturer would spec this particular model on a production bike would be to bring their advertised weight down.

Here's my take on the more common Vittoria tire choices:

Rubino Pros - very durable (puncture resistance & mileage), reasonable cost. Probably one of the better training tire choices that still has a reasonable ride. (My current training tire of choice.)

Diamante Pros - pretty durable, but less than the Rubino Pros. Reasonably light at 210 grams & medium cost. A better riding tire with reasonable durability. Maybe a good choice for someone who wants a dual purpose racing and training tire. Good racing tire if road conditions are marginal (when you don't want to run the Open Corsa)

Open Corsa (CX, KS, KX) - great racing tire, but not as durable as the other two choices above. Incredible ride quality, and low rolling resistance. A bit pricey, but it depends on what you want out of your tires (lots of cheap miles, or great traction and a Cadillac ride). Durability on par with the Michelin Pro Race from my experience, but I've found that both cut more easily than the Diamante Pro and Rubino Pro.

Corsa EVO (CX, KS,KX) - ultimate race tire if going tubular. Good puncture resistance, great traction, and the ultimate in ride quality. I was surprised how much better the ride is than even the clincher Open Corsa. *** Another new plus - Vittoria now has a sealant like Tufo does. *** This eliminates one of the previous advantages that Tufo had over Vittoria.

The one advantage that the Corsa and Open Corsa have - you get to choose the tread pattern to suit the conditions or your personal preference. Slick, File Tread, or wet conditions deeper tread, all in the same model of tire.

Vittoria probably has the widest range of tire choices, allowing you go find something that matches your needs. You can't try one Vittoria model, determine that it is no good (doesn't give you what you think you were expecting) and then figure that all Vittoria tires are no good. It is just a matter of prioritizing your wants and then picking the most suitable model(s).

Conti UltraGator Skins (foldable). Great for training and racing. I think I've gotten two flats the whole year, but that's because I rode them 'til they were about to fall off.

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"Yeah you point a finger back far enough and some germ gets blamed for splitting in two."

Colonel Saul Tigh from Battlestar Galactica

Me too for my new Soloist. Three rides, three flats before I bought Conti Ultra -Gatorskins.

Cheers

Vernon

Nice to see the Rubinos getting a good press for once. I've run these for a few years now. I'e found them to be very hardy. I can't think of a time when anything has made a clean hole through them - if you flat it's generally because something has embedded in the tyre and a small piece of it pierces the inner. Very solid choice.

I had the Vriedsteins on another bike for a while. I was impressed by the ride, and rode them with liners, sp punctures were not an issue. I seem to remember looking at them early on and thinking "these look fragile" hence the liners.

Currently running Michelin Pro2 Race. They look wider than they are, but I think it's a trick of the light. Fast, certainly. Haven't (yet) noticed any problems with them in the wet/damp. I take the view that if you run a tyre with no tread you're going to end up talking about how nervous they are in the wet, not how stable they are.

I did manage to puncture a Pro2Race early on in a big way - going over the shoulder of a bump I picked up some glass that sliced clean through the tyre and inner in two places. I remember thinking that wasn't something I had been used to with the Rubinos.

I have had good success with the Michelins as well. I think next year I will be riding the Michelin Pro Race 2s with latex tubes, carrying a butyl tube for my racing spare. I've got 23s right now and they measure just a shade under. I'm thinking about 20mm for next year. Any thoughts on that before we kill this thread?

I ride 20 front 23 rear and have been considering 20/20 because it really doesn't seem to be any harsher, unless yer riding on Contis. I haven't ridden a lot on it in training though, I'll probably try that first for a few thousand miles...although I used to ride 18s front and rear.

I haven't measured the Pro2 Race but the Pro Race was oversized by nearly 1mm (21/24 instead of 20/23). IIRC the Contis were within 0.2mm, the Hutchinsons were about 0.5mm over on both 20 and 23, I can't remember the others. All on the same rim, same tube, same 120psi.

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Front--Specialized Mondo Pro, 700x23C, aramid bead

why? because it came on the bike when i purchased it about 1,800 miles ago and i haven't yet had a reason to replace it.

Rear--Continental Ultra Gatorskin, 700x23c

why? because when my rear mondo pro was gutted i wanted something with excellent puncture resistance but had reasonably low rolling resistance. and since i'm training, not racing, who cares?

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Your favorite mafia sucks.

For training, cheapest clinchers possible. They may be heavy (usually wire beaded), they may not roll as nicely, but the ones I use (Conti Ultra Sport Kevlars at $13 Canadian each) are very durable and puncture resistant. I have them on my commuter as well, which I end up running through all sorts of in town road crap. Honestly, I had GP3000s on before, and didn't notice a huge amount of difference, except getting up to speed was definitely slower.

The best thing about using crappy tires for training, is that race day tires are just that much faster, smoother and better handling. For racing, I use Zipp's tubular tires. Only limited use so far, but they seem very nice.

Chris

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"I do not hurt on the bike, I punish."