I think he just liked the old Bondi B, like me. He’s hopping they’ll go back and make the old Bondi B again. Alas every single shoe since the Clifton 1 has been absolute trash this shoe brand died when it was bought by Deckers.

These posts seem to pop up every month-or-so, always with the subtext that something is untoward but never actually saying it. You could just search Dan's response from every other thread?

seems like a bit of an exaggeration

Well, as Dan has said before - they list sponsors/Partners on the bottom of every page.

Looking down, I don't see Hoka listed.

Honestly, the post doesn't make it sound like you are "genuinely" interested in hearing about the brand, and it's not a particularly good summary (in my opinion) of the stance toward the company. Hard to call the article re: the Elevon an advertorial, and Slowtwitch has posted reviews (not "lip service," which seems like what you don't want) of other brands of shoes, yes?

Dans review - Hoka used to be pretty unique, but now they're kinda "meh"

OPs reaction.- DANS A SHILL!!!

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Dan is a solid pillar of experience and knowledge in triathlon, creating the first swim specific wetsuit & tri bike, with ST as one of the larger forums in the sport. I'd think that HOKA would be smart to tap into his ideas especially as HOKA has a huge following in triathlon. If he knows he may have influence if he offered advice on his favorite shoes, he may be able to help tweak it even better through suggestions/advising. Although that is assuming that which I shouldn't, maybe they know or read previous posts & approached him. If it makes a better or smarter product, I'm all for it. Progress, right?

The Clifton was, y'know, launched after the Deckers acquisition. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant. :)

Shoes evolve. All of the time. Things that some people liked about that original Bondi, others hated. (I always thought the Bondi 2 was the best Bondi.) And shoe brands tend to come full circle with design. Before you know it, you'll have a Bondi in your hands again that you'll wish they don't change. But they'll change something to appease the people who didn't like what you liked.

Every single run brand does this. The key is just finding those things you love in other shoes.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

You’re right, just frustrated with the brand as of late.

Payola bro
just kidding he digs those goofy shoes

Did you notice that Roka is listed first, while all of the others are listed alphabetically? Speaks partially to Roka.

Same can be said for his Roka reviews. While he may be impartial to their competitors, he always speaks very highly of Roka and their products. And when there’s a thread asking about the best swim jammers, or googles, or pool aids, you’ll see his high-praise in-line Roka comments. And a simple search will prove my point.

But wouldn't be nice if companies at least kept producing the models so people that like a shoe can stick with it. I mean seriously, what better reason to bring back a piece of apparel than function? Nike seems to like it do it for with things like the Jordan's which are not being brought back for function.

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i have no connection to HOKA. i don't receive a penny from that company. i am not schedule to receive a penny from that company. i was a fan of the brand for 2 years, from the beginning, writing about HOKA since 2011, for no money received. when HOKA got sold to deckers, they did become an advertiser of ours for a year or so. they invited me to be in their think tank during that year. they haven't advertised in the last few years, i have never met Deckers' president, HOKA's president, or its VP marketing. I now know almost no one at HOKA and any communication about the footwear is between me and its PR agency.

i saw they just signed a deal with ironman, that is, they re-signed that deal. which is great. great deal for all parties. but everyone who has his ear to the tracks in triathlon knows that HOKA's special attachment to triathlon is due solely to its good shoes and this good portal. slowtwitch built HOKA. (at least, in triathlon.)

i would love to partner with another brand, and have Slowtwitch and its readers do for that brand what it did for HOKA. but there is no brand that has seriously endeavored to understand and absorb the engineering and design lessons of HOKA. therefore, i'm still running in HOKA's shoes. in fact, i get up in the morning and put on UGGs, then when i get ready to go outside i put on HOKA tor hi top WPs, and then when i run it's (currently) in the elevons. so, my feet are only in this company's shoes unless i'm going to a wedding, a funeral, or a bike race.

and i buy them all. i go online, click the pay button, just like you. i twice over the last 2 years got a free pair of HOKAs after i've bought many, and that happens if the PR team at HOKA wants me to try something i just don't want to spend the money to try. otherwise, that's it.

does that answer your question? because, if it doesn't, feel free to ask in some other way and i'll be as transparent as you need so that you can rest assured that what i write is based on what i think, rather than what i get paid.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Genuinely interested //

Really?? Genuinely?? His connection is at the feet at the moment(and has been for a very long time), and I can tell you he has been buying the shoes for the past few years. As he stated, just about all the people he knew at Deckers are gone now, or moved to other divisions.


It was about a 2 million dollar a year company when Dan and I found those shoes, and they saved our running as old broken men. They are now approaching 200 million in yearly sales, so I would say that is pretty dynamic, wouldn't you, I mean if you are really being genuine? And they went from a back of the pack shoe in the Kona count to number one in a few short years. I would say the company is doing something right, and they have only started to bring on some bigger name pros in the past few years, so it was all of us old men, broken runners, and triathletes that dont want to be beat up on their long runs, in training and racing.


And it is kind of funny that a lot of the shoe companies now have a Hoka like shoe in their line ups. For the first several years they were regarded as a fad, and thus ignored as something that would go away, like the five fingers. But they didn't, and other companies have seen this new market niche growing faster than any of the other ones, so they are now playing catch up. I think if you read the article and genuinely pay attention, you would find that it is also a criticism of some of the directions they have taken, we both dont want to lose that shoe that saved us. At least until another company makes a very similar shoe with the same basic characteristics.

If you haven't tried the Napali yet give it a try. It's not exact but it does remind me of the original Clifton. That said, I have been able to enjoy just about every model of Hoka's I've ever tried (except the Clayton).

I disagree - look what he writes about De Soto wetsuits. He basically says that their 2-piece wetsuits are the only way to get true shoulder mobility. He raves about them in every possible way. But shoulder mobility is what Roka's arms up technology is all about.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Dan,

Thanks for the response. I know my initial lacked finesse (or in monty's mind, tact), but that's what seems to be need to get people heated enough to interact. My question, though, was genuine. I've seen a number of reviews of HOKA on here, and for such a small company, with limited products in the running sphere compared to other brands, their constant presence could be viewed as an endorsement of the brand. Often the reviews, while pointing out the downsides, are glowingly positive overall, with an attempt to downplay negatives, that they come across to me as nuanced advertorials.

Knowing your successes in developing brands in niche markets and turning them into takeover targets, as well as your influence in the tri community, I wanted to know if you had a greater involvement in the company than simply that of a fan. Monty says they are now the #1 brand in Kona, which I could easily chalk up to your reviews, having arguably the largest online presence in US triathlon. I don't think it is overstepping to inquire if there was a relationship with them (especially since you stated yourself that there was in the past).

no problem. fair question. just, look, i am endorsing the brand. it's just that i'm not getting paid to do it. i've also been endorsing profile design for the last several years, for no money (tho they've just come aboard as a slowtwitch partner). if i find a brand that is killing it in design, i endorse their good work. but, taking profile as an example, some of what they do i don't like, and we had discussions beforehand about that, and they said call them as you see them, that's fine.

you're right to be skeptical, because it's pretty obvious what's going on these days in the online cycling portal business. you have to pick through to find the voices you can trust. like ray maker. you have to find those you can rely on.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

right, i think dan is pretty damn honest about what he likes and doesnt. if it brings in advertising for ST then great, but he's also not afraid to express misgivings about products either. i take his opinions on companies and products more seriously than any others, and then do my own digging around for what suits me best.
unfair accusation by the op.

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I think I’ve only ever worn their conquest model that I don’t believe they make any more. Comfortable but soles wore out way too quickly

For me this is simple. Shoes are very personal. Hoka work for you, not for me. So I have learned to take all reviews, as just another opinion. Cost me a fair amount of money, time and injuries to figure it out.

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Team Zoot So Cal

Same here. I went from age 13 (middle school XC) to around age 42 miraculously without a major running injury (included H.S. and collegiate track/XC marathons, ultras, triathlon, etc.).

I drank the Hoka Kool-Aid, and got two major injures in one year.

I don't think my issues may generalize to many other people though because the injuries are fairly specific to me. But interestingly, the most recent Hoka article roughly alluded to the issue with the Kanute photo. My issue is that after a lifetime of trail running, my ankles are so "loose" that I can roll my ankles, and keep going. I maybe hobble for a stride or two, then I'm off.

But with sheer heel height and outsole width of Hokas, when I rolled my ankle, they - excuse my language - seriously fucked me up. You get a lot of torque, and just the sheer distance the ankle can roll from that extra few mm of heel height was a huge, huge deal for me. I got a severe ankle sprain one time (out for months). Then after that I started "protecting" my ankles from rolling, which caused me to do a stupid contortion while downhill bombing, and partially tore a knee tendon. Hokas -> trash bin.

Might be specific to me. But just a warning if anyone's a habitual ankle-roller like me: beware of Hokas.

I've got to disagree on that one as shoes are very personal. I thought all the Cliftons were meh too soft. Clayton I love but blister issues better with different insoles. I have been running in a set of Cavu the last few months and loving them. Slightly firmer and a lot more room in the shoe. Only loving the brand more and more.