My wife is not into all the tri-biz, but she lets me go ride WHENEVER i want. I have never been w/ a girl where I have all the freedom in the world (when it comes to my bike). She even jokes sometimes that I love my bike more than I do her. I am SOOO lucky to have found someone that doesn't ball-n-chain me.

You don't need a girl that's all caught up in the tri biz, but it sure would help to have a girl that understands why you get up at 5am and go to bed at 9pm and aren't around on the weekend mornings.

My $0.02

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How many miles did you ride today?

I've told almost every girl I've dated "As long as you are nice and you wear cute underwear we're fine."

At the surface, it seems shallow, but if you think about it, it's true.

The way people behave in a relationship has a lot to say about how they feel about themselves. Sometimes I am not sure of myself, and that comes through in a relationship. Since there are times when I have self-doubt, it is hard for me to believe someone else will stick with me.

If a person can see the good in me, see that I love truly and depply, see that I would never abandon them and would always be there- if those are their values, that is what I look for. In return I always offer the same.

Someday we'll all be old and saggy. What really counts is faithfulness, forgiveness, honesty and never giving up- especially when things are hard.

That's what I try to be (and don't always succeed) and that's what I look for.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

to lump it into a generalized, concise description, i'm looking for a girl who can take care of herself.

that is, i like a girl who takes care of her body (preferably by running, swimming, or biking - or all of the above). and i like a girl who is strong willed, wise, and funny.

finally, since i don't have a girlfriend currently, and since my legs are unshaven for the time being, i am looking for a girl who will not freak out when i suddenly become all shaven.

as an afterthought: more and more girls that i seem to covet sobriety and abstinence. now, i'm not a big drinker anymore (thanks, triathlon) and my love-life's dry-spell has shown me that i can survive quite some time without sex, but i am weirded out by a girl who is so zealous in her morality. i respect her for sticking to her guns, but i consider her morals misguided and contrary to what i'd look for in a relationship.

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http://www.theninjadon.blogspot.com

"The bicycle riders drank much wine, and were burned and browned by the sun. They did not take the race seriously except among themselves." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

Oh, I should add: You asked a straight question- what does it take to make a relationship work?

Well, I think it was Fleck who did an excellent job of characterizing what is required for a relationship to be optimal and healthy in the thread about "girl troubles". Good solid relationships are about:

1. Complete and total honesty

2. Respect

3. Integrity

4. Security

Fleck is absolutely right. The problem is, we should all be such good people ourselves. We're human and we aren't always pillars of respect, integrity, security and honesty. Sometimes we screw up.

Relationships are like a hard race: You make a decision to stay in at the beginning. That decision keeps you in it especially when things aren't looking good. There may be reasons you have to leave- like being injured or dying, but there aren't any other reasons. Once you make the commitment, you stay, even when the other person makes a mistake, puts on some weight, goes broke or falls on hard times.

No person is perfect all the time. It is fine to say "I'm looking for the perfect person" but without being the perfect person that is impossible.

So, to Fleck's list I would add:

5. Forgiveness.

6. Humility.

Just my .02 cents

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

This is interesting. I certainly agree with Tom's traits up above, but I also think you need to look for person who lives a life compatable with the traits you want. The "spark" is only part of it. When I was 37 I finally decided that it was time to get serious about finding someone.

So I made a list of about 35 things that I was looking for and marked the ones that were mandatory, or just prefered. Then I pledged to look and only continue dating someone who matched my list. It was amazing how fast this "sorted 'em out." I was married within a year, and now about 7 years later have 3 kids and am married to exactly who I always wanted but had never before found.

So, decide what it is that you really want. Then, systematically sort them out. Forget all those normal male urges. I guarantee that if she fits the list, you won't have to worry about the attraction......which is exactly the opposite of what I did in the past and most (Tom?) still do - that is, I, and most of us, are attracted first and then try to justify everything else. That rarely works.

Make sense? The one prayer I obsolutely remember every day is to give thanks for my bride. Best wishes,

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

This goes for both sides but make sure your prospect is hot. Don't be duped into believing that it is shallow to have looks as your criteria. We bring a wide range of equally shallow hopes to the table. Men happen to use looks first (why not, those who don't take care of themselves can be worse than those totally hung up on themselves), many women use the image they beleive the man projects (usually movie star tall dark handsome) for their criteria. Oh they claim only personality matters, but let's get real. So in the end your prospect will have good and bad qualities, so they might as well be hot to boot. I look great for my age, heck any age (thanks to this sport) but all it takes for my wife is a shirtless pic of any less buff Hollywood movie dude to set her motor running. In fact I think we got it all wrong, I married her cause she was nice and she thinks I'm a dork cause I'm not famous or smell as good as one of those romance novel dudes. So I figure no matter how you slice it, you might as well enjoy the view, at least you come out with one positive. Wait, that might be worse, I'd rather have Rosie O'donnel put a lock on the box than Kylie Bax.

Until I can keep a marriage past the five year mark (this is #2), I can't give you much help.

I dunno. Make sure you have the same values. This is key. All of those things that Demmerly spoke of apply, if those are your values.

I hate to say it, but I don't know what makes me and mrs. bunnyman tick. I respect her, she respects me. There will always be power struggles, as she wants more time with me, and sometimes, she sees the bike taking me away from her. Sometimes, I have to tell her that a new component/frame/complete bike/trip to a race is worth atleast one of those pairs of shoes she buys or gambling junkets she goes on. I have to be firm and say, "I know how much you like my type of bunny-lovin', but I gotta get onto the bike/run/workout/whatever so that I can keep givin' you that bunny-lovin'. It's a lot harder with a huge gut".

Relationships are actually very fragile things. Always treat them that way, and you will probably have a bond with your gopher hottie girl for a long time. The minute one of you does not treat it like it's fragile, it spells trouble.

The first mrs. bunnyman (she wasn't a rabbit- she doesn't even deserve to be have bunny anywhere near her name) was a controlling b****, and it was my fault because I let her. Don't let good gopher lovin' dicktate your life. Make sure she is not obsessed with you, even if your gopher lovin' is really grand.

Make sure that you are a whole gopher who knows who you are and you will find your gopher girl. That's half of it. And if it's right, you won't feel that it's work at all. But if she gets too whiney about the tri stuff, burrow yourself away from her. There are other gophers more worthy of your gopher mojo.

And as promised this isn't quite off topic, because I am looking for a relationship with a girl who's down with all the tri-biz.

I'm not going to make assumptions, but I am going to wonder outloud. Respond if you wish. [It's late, everyone is in bed, and I'm feeding my internet craving] Please keep in mind that I know nothing about you ... so these questions should not be taken as personal attacks.

Does the above statement translate to any of the following statements/questions in regards to "down with the tri-biz"

1. She'll let me the screw the budget and buy any and all training equipment I feel necessary (even those that I just "want"). I'm a teacher married to an accountant. I'm sure you can see where this question came from. Heh Heh.

2. I can enter as many races as I want and she'll understand why I'm (we're?) gone every weekend doing "my stuff".

3. She won't mind being stuck at home (wherever that might be) while I'm out training.

4. She won't mind foregoing any sense of a dating scene nightlife, because my money, time, dedication, etc is to triathloning.

5. She won't want to have sex leading up to the next race (just a humorous attempt to play on an earlier thread regarding sex and racing)

There are others I could think of, but won't b/c they'll just get repetitive.

What I'm asking is are looking for someone that is going to let you do what you want and then be there for you whenever you're ready to do something with her. I ask because that seems to be part of the attitude that leads to such a high divorce rate (or so I've read) among triathletes.

Personally, I would not respect a woman that would tolerate all (or any) of the crap i typed above. IMO, it would not be realistic to expect that. Again, I'm not assuming this about you, but typing this bit for any lurkers that might read (and as a reminder to myself). If all you want is companionship on your terms, then get a pet. It will fit into your life.

Relationships basically come down to sacrifice. Not sacrifice in a bad way. But sacrifice because it makes the other person happy. In many relationships people seem to be interested in what makes "them happy" rather than what makes their "partner happy". In other words, it's the distinction between real love & infatuation. People confuse the two.

So, if your partner really needed a "night alone with you" would you cancel your swim and long run workouts? Instead of buying the new S710 that goes with your new software, would you buy her something she deserved for puttin up with your crap? [That's a question I'm debating right now. Yes, the little angel and devil are on each shoulder, and right now the devil is winning on points. *big grin*]

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A lot of relationship stuff comes down to trust and loyalty. Jealousy destroys most relationships. Jealousy over materials, time, friends, opposite sex, etc. Jealousy comes from a lack of self-esteem. So, when looking for a partner I recommend someone that is independent and confident. Someone that has their own life, and can be happy without being attached to someone else. Have them be with you because they choose to, not because they have an underlying fuindamental need to be "with someone". They should also be happy doing their own thing while you are out doing your own thing.

It also comes down to consideration. As someone that's been married for almost 7 years, this is something I have to watch for. As easy as it is for me to phone my wife and ask her to pick up our son so I can swim for 30 more minutes, or squeeze in a strength -training workout ... I have to consider how this will affect her and her time constraints. It is a tough thing to do. I have to remind myself that long after I'm done triathloning, Lord Willing, she'll still be there. I have to plan this, it won't happen on its own.

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We're talking relationships as in "I might wanna marry this girl" and not "I could bone her a few times", right? I look for love ... and I found it once ... and consider myself lucky. I mean love as in you love that person more than yourself, and you put them in a position of being "equal" to you in terms of needs. In other words, you don't treat them as an afterthought and they don't treat you as an afterthought.

As the divorce rate indicates relationships are more risky than ever. IMO, most of it comes down to people wanting to do whatever they want whenever they want, and expecting the other person to understand and accept this. That won't work with any woman worth having.

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Decide whether you want a "strictly fun" relationship or whether you're looking for "the one".

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Ass. Healthy round booty all up in my face.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"Ass. Healthy round booty all up in my face."

I have been doing a lot of thinking about intellectual honesty after reading this forum the past several days. People are criticising George Bush for not agreeing to outlaw McDonalds when Bill Clinton couldn't even make it through a 3-mile jog without stopping in there. People criticise George Bush for Iraq when Bill Clinton did exactly the same thing in Bosnia. I know--there are examples the other way, too. But, what I have just concluded after this last post by Mr. Tibbs is--that he is probably the only, truly intellectually honest person on this forum.

Quick somebody moon Mr. Tibbs and give him what he wants. (<--joke)

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Tri_Bri2 ... don't make too many assumptions. Lots of folks "just want ass". It's been my experience that many (not all) of these folks usually go without [I spent my like in a licker room and athlete's dorm listening to claims to were very likely untrue).

Once you've had a good deal of "ass", you crave something else. Something with meaning. "Ass" is not all that hard to come by assuming you don't look like the grill of an old rusty truck, and have average speaking skills. Really. Be halfway attractive and friendly (i.e. smile and act interested) and you'll get your share.

Eventually, after you've sampled enough variety, you start looking for the one thing that is best for you. Enjoying someone during times when they have their clothes on is a sign that you're there. If when they put their clothes on you wish they would leave, then that lets you know that intellectually and emotionally you're still an adolescent ... even if you're 28.

That's not an insult or a rip, just a statement. If ass is all you're looking for in a relationship (not directed at Mr. Tibbs), you'll find it. It will hold your interest for a small amount of time, until you need "different ass". Some folks never get past this stage, and wander from ass to ass. Some see that example and say "Hell Yeah!" others see it and feel empathy for what they are missing. It depends on individual.

But to assume that anyone not saying "Big Titties, Man!" is not being honest is not fair. I like to think I've got plenty of "machismo" (too much sometimes), but heck, even I (a former stereotypical college athlete) left the "brining an arbitrary number of sexual conquest" into every coversation behind once I got out of college. Then, it was time to put my childish views aside and start looking for what life is really about (Hint: It's not about how much beer you can chug, weed you can smoke, or chicks you can nail ... It's embarrassing how long it took me to figure that out. I'm not preaching, I'm talking from an "I've been there" perspective).

Again, not directed at Mr. Tibbs ... but more to inspire actual adult conversation ... the folks that talk the most about ass and conquests, etc have generally been the "least honest" of the folks that I know.

If you can find a man that admits to a group other men that he's in love and doesn't wish to bag every babe he sees ... you can count on the fact you have just met a honest man. If someone jumps up and says all they care about is a bootylicious rumpty all on their lap, then they are either exegerrating or have really low expectations and requirements for a relationship. {Remember this thread was about relationships not encounters]

I guess this bothers me more than most b/c for much of my life I was out trying to be a poor man's Wilt Chamberlain and made fun of guys that were with "one person" and worse ... they were happy with it. I made fun of them b/c they had something I did not, and enjoyed something that I did not understand.

So, now I try to speak out against that type of shallow behavior. Even it means folks like the "old-me" will throw insults and comments my way. In the end ... I win, because of what I have learned.

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Tri_Bri, I'm not assuming that you meant literally that anyone that said anything other than "I want laid" was being dishonest. I was trying tto illustrate to all who were reading that there are folks out there that want more than just some doggy-style action. That's fun for a while, but it doesn't last.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

http://spokepost.com/diary/perera/?articleID=6

see #3

Speaking from some limited personal experience... I'd have to agree :-P

Then again, if any forumites of the female persuasion would like to change my opinion.... I keed, I keed!

What about a girl who can put her legs behind her head?

I had an uncle tell me that if your girlfriend could put her own legs behind her head or if you could see her breasts while standing behind her ... that you should marry her before someone else does.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

When you strip away the BS, what do we have relationships for? I still say Mr. Tibbs is the only one here who strips every issue down to the nub and nails it dead on.

When you strip away the BS, what do we have relationships for?

That's what I was getting at without trying to sound too preachy or coming on too strong. You can have all sorts of sex and "ass all up in your face" without the responsibility of a relationship. So there has to be benefits of a relationship that a "great ass in your face" doesn't provide, right?

I was trying to explain those benefits and what to look for in order to obtain one. I guess it might be one of those things that only fully understood once you experience it. That's how it was for me.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

"What about a girl who can put her legs behind her head?"

Had a girlfriend like that once. Asian. Excuse I gotta..uh...well..something suddenly came up.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

If anyone ever wanted to challenge Mr. Tibbs to a situp contest with $50 on the line ... now's your chance.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Early frontrunner for Slowtwitch Post of the Year. Hell, might as well just give it to him. Nobody's topping that one.

I'm in the same boat. Obviously, a girl who's also a triathlete would seem like a great fit. Unfortunately, I haven't found triathlon to be a particularly target-rich environment. Not that there aren't many attractive, intelligent ladies who tri, but the vast majority are taken. The situation is exacerbated because there are MANY more single male triathletes than single female triathletes.

I think if one is in a relationship that require too much analysis, it is not a good sign. I know people "make" relationships work but like anything, if you have to work all the time it does become a daunting proposition. I think if you find yourself in the situation where you don't need to think about what you should do/shouldn't have done that you have probably found the one. Kind of like wrestling, if you have to think about a move before you do it, it probably isn't going to work but if you have it down, it happens without even thinking.

My wife moved in with me her last year of high school 14 years ago, we have been married 12 and "making it work" has never been an issue. Maybe I just got lucky finding the right one? I suspect it is a matter of not taking one for granted and being secure enough to not create issues when none really exist. I think the term "it takes two to tango" is very descriptive as two vested partners are the cornerstone (regardless of specific factors all individuals bring to the table).

I also think as a society individualism is at an all time high so there is less social pressure to maintain a relationship that "may" put a bit of pressure on an individual. It is often an matter of "what he wants" and "what she wants" rather than what is best for the relationship as its own entity in the long term.

Let me tell you a story of sacrfice and true love.

It's about 1 am and you just left the tail end of a c-130. Strapped to you is all your gear plus an 85 pound cyclinder. After you reach the proper altitude you release the cyclinder that has it's own parachute and uses you as a brace for it's static line. You pull your own chord after you see your cargo has opened safely and is out of your way. The airfoil pops you check your rigging and before you have time to look down you land on the ground. You collapse the chute and sprint for you cyclinder.

Once you find it you crack it open removing pot lights, radios, entrenchmant tools and other labor causing devices. You sprint up and down the field checking for obstructions and setting up lights and hammering in guide poles. Hey good news the Lt has found a boulder in the middle of the runway and you and one of you home boys get to dig it out and roll it out of the way. After a another triple check of the landing zone and a billionth read through of your 500 checklists you hear the sounds of 4 Hercules coming is low and fast the LT has them guided in and you haul ass to the other side and taxi them in.

The Rangers (god bless them) come hualin ass out with all there toys and you turn the dirty birds and they take off. The Rangers form up and start doing thier thing. You take apart the airfield and dig hole for all that crap. You get a quick swig of water and a snickers bar while the Lt gives out some last minute ideas. Then you and three of your buddies walk into the night with your overloaded packs.

For the next 2 weeks you track and I.D. every bad guy thing you can think of. You help A-10s have fun and if your really lucky you direct a few artillery barrages. All this time you have humped about 65 pounds of gear over about 100 miles. The whole time you sleep about 15 minutes at a time while waking up every 3-5 minutes becuase 'something was diffrent."

You finally make it to your egress point where you jump into the Blackhawk and hang on as those army pilots try to make you hurl out the side hatch.

You touch down back at base and debrief. The LT says "you got 48 hours" You say Whoo-hoo!!!! and..and...and...what? Throw alll your crap where ever you can find a place for it and shower and run off base like the Rangers (god bless them) did?

No you don't. The very first thing you do is lovingly break down your M4/203. You clean each and every little piece. You look for anything out of order. If it is even the slighest bit not perfect you steal a more new part from the Rangers (God bless them) and put your baby back together. Oiled and cleaner than any surgical insturment in any hospital. Your then do the same with you Berreta and you your knives. You then mend any and all rips, tares or possible future rip and tears in you BDUs and lay them out on your bed.

This whole time you a sweaty, filthy, unholy mess. So you get into the shower. Do you wash yourself? No! You wash what ever clothes and packs you carried for the op. You scrub and rinse and scrub and rinse until it is like new. Then you help your buddies get those freakin' lice, leeches, tics, spies whatever decided you make a good meal. Then and only then do you clean up. Then and only then do you double check everything. Put new batteries in your beeper. Lay out your clothes the order you would put them on in. You load all clips and magazines and fill every pocket in your clothes with everyting you'll ever need. Ammo, Snickers, ammo, first aid, ammo, etc. Write a letter home, look at the picture of your beuatiful family and wonder if they even know who you are now.(Wipe that tear away quick! What are you a fag?)

Only then do you leave. And while your babysitting your team and enjoying that hard earned beer and cigar a little part of you prays for that beeper to go off so you can do it all over again.

Why did I write all this? First of all I am in a very reflictive mood right now and just wanted to relive the good times. The other reason is if I ever find a woman who would take care of me like I took care of my kit then I would marry her on the spot. I was a Mormon growing up so maybe the old wife could saty. ;-)

In a relationship being selfless can be it's own reward.

Oh yeah about the fag thing. To any homosexuals on the board. Nohting personal I swear to Slowman. We where just a bunch of men being super manly and doing manly stuff. A homosexual can be just as manly as any hetro guy but you know it was the military. So please don't hate me. Please. Are we ok with that Tom D?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

<<Let me tell you a story of sacrfice and true love.

It's about 1 am and you just left the tail end of a c-130. Strapped to you is all your gear plus an 85 pound cyclinder. After you reach the proper altitude you release the cyclinder that has it's own parachute and uses you as a brace for it's static line. You pull your own chord after you see your cargo has opened safely and is out of your way. The airfoil pops you check your rigging and before you have time to look down you land on the ground. You collapse the chute and sprint for you cyclinder.

Once you find it you crack it open removing pot lights, radios, entrenchmant tools and other labor causing devices. You sprint up and down the field checking for obstructions and setting up lights and hammering in guide poles. Hey good news the Lt has found a boulder in the middle of the runway and you and one of you home boys get to dig it out and roll it out of the way. After a another triple check of the landing zone and a billionth read through of your 500 checklists you hear the sounds of 4 Hercules coming is low and fast the LT has them guided in and you haul ass to the other side and taxi them in.>>

Sounds to me like a day in the life of a USAF Combat Air Controller.

Don't mess with guys in red barrets...

Brett

First in, last out.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.