That was a lot of questions :)

When you say decent cyclist, how would you express that in w / kg (FTP) ?

What is your ambition for each sport in your LD race?

What history have you got in shorter distances? 70.3 eg?




Couple of thoughts from me:

• 14-15h / week is not a lot. I do less personally (11-12h)
• Indoor cycling is fine, if you are good friends with HT and Zwift (or similar)
• I never do "weights" - I do core exercises after each swim, and functional strength on the bike

Start now, to improve in all sports, and you will get a better/faster IMCHOO experience. Why wait?
I was self-coached for first 1-2 years, and got to 10h in Ironman.
Got a good coach and went to 9h. Sounds like some external help/support would do you good.

T

Thanks for your reply. I have considered hiring a coach before but have not pulled the trigger due to cost. Here's a post from a year ago where I pondered about it out loud and got some good feedback. It also tells you a little about me as an athlete and some results in the few 70.3's that I've done.


As an FYI - i just ran a sub 3 marathon without coaching. Could I have been faster with a coach, yes. But whats the difference for me from 2:59 to 2:50 really?

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/struggling_with_hiring_a_coach..._P7846902/#p7846902


Swim coach is the best bang for my buck, but its also why I chose IMCHOO (for the river swim with a current).


Hoping to be sub 10. It will be close, but where I need to make the most gains to get the time I need is on the bike.


I know 14-15 is not a lot, but its a lot for me with work, kids etc. Doable but not easy.

Well sub 10 is a solid goal for a first Ironman. Sub 3 hour open marathon most likely translates to about 3:15-3:20 Ironman marathon (but if you have 2:50 with proper coaching maybe you can go a lot faster than 3:15 Ironman marathon with coaching)

What kind of marathon volume running were you doing?

For the swim I would say 3-4 swims per week. 3-4 hours total.

Run… if you want to focus on the bike you can do 2-3 runs per week with a focus on high aerobic 3-4 hours per week.

Bike would be more volume but wouldn’t really get crazy high hours until closer to Chattanooga. Base season 6-8 hours and maybe add in 2-4 for 6 weeks going into the race.

You mentioned z2. I would really dial in the z2 range and stay on the upper end of that range for the bang for the buck. A lot of people mistake z2 with z1 training. High Z2 isn’t all that easy.

Message me if you want to chat. I’d be happy to give you some advice for winter training.

---

Mission Kona Podcast
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2568182
Kona 2024 Qualifier

Couple of things:

1. I still think that having your swim stroke analyzed by Materingflow or snappingT is a wise investment likely to yield more ROI compared to other things

2. I would not suggest not running for Nov-Dec. Even if you just run 15 minutes 3x/wk and do some fast :15-:20 pickups. Not doing something is a great way to backslide. Why take 5 steps back when you could only take 2 or 3?

3. in the pool technique work builds fitness, fitness work build technique. Don't focus mostly on one or the other combine the two.

4. I would suggest making a plan, in pencil, sketching out what you think needs to be done and when, put in ways to track it, then follow the plan using the eraser to modify/change based on how things are going. When I read this post and reread the previous post from years back they both sound disjointed, they don't transition (see what I did there haha) from A to B to C to D. That could just be me. Yet when I read these posts I think A to D to R to B to X to H to U

Hope that helps

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I'm just going to focus on this since I just put up a video about it. I wish this idea would die that the best way to improve technique in swimming is to focus on drills and technique. It's some of the worst triathlon swim advice ever.



I hope this helps.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

I am by no means an expert like you but I agree with this. I was thankful to be coached by jonnyo many years and he took my swim to respectable levels considering I had zero background but what we did not do was drills just to do drills. If he put them in the workout it was like 200 max and a few drills we knew I could do. When I started out and got plans from online and other places there were sometimes I had 500+ yards in drills and most likely I was not doing any of them correctly which was a lot of wasted time in the water. The biggest thing jonnyo did for me was do some swim weeks where I swam everyday. That got me to the point where I could not get faster swimming but the pace became easier and I was able to hold the pace for longer or my recovery was faster. I will say though I was a decent AG swimmer in races so it is not like I was just compounding poor technique with more swimming rather than fixing the issues I had.

---

Twitter - Instagram

Where did you post a video?

The video is in the post. You have to agree to the Slowtwitch cookies to see it.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

No wonder I never see any videos 🤣🤣🤣

2. I would not suggest not running for Nov-Dec. Even if you just run 15 minutes 3x/wk and do some fast :15-:20 pickups. Not doing something is a great way to backslide. Why take 5 steps back when you could only take 2 or 3?

In an attempt to not write a novel, I left out the fact that I had some posterior tibial tendonisits during marathon training towards the end. I did enough to manage it and get through the race but figured a few weeks off of run training is needed. Probably dont need 8 weeks and probably wont take 8 weeks. But should probably also consult a physio/ortho.

But also, because I am an AOS and not a very good one combined with the fact that I have not swam in over a year and I am time limited due to normal work/life stuff, I thought dedicating my workout time to swim right now would be most beneficial. I will lose some run fitness and that sucks.

3. in the pool technique work builds fitness, fitness work build technique. Don't focus mostly on one or the other combine the two.

I know this and its my plan, I again wasnt clear that I intend to mix swim with drills. But because it feels like I am starting over I thought spending a decent amout of time on drills would be helpful to get going.

4. I would suggest making a plan,

I am scatter shot when I type on this board. That doesnt mean youre wrong as there are definitely some mis-steps in my planning, but I think its also due to lack of clear communication in my posts. I will ultimately follow a prescribed plan which will follow a logical pattern when it comes to starting to formally train. It is in the off season that I get a bit lost in how to proceed optimally though.

Let me try again while also still trying to be concise:

With limited time and a desire/need to improve my cycling...

What is best plan on TR to follow from December through March? I was thinking of doing a full Ironman plan during this time (likely mid volume), but wasn't sure if that was too much too soon/early.
I plan to ask TR people as well for their recommendation.

Thank Tim. The comment about running at pace and not just doing run drills hits home and makes sesnse to me. Youve got to run/swim at pace.

I will be sure to subscribe to the channel and start consuming your content.

Any advice for an AOS who took a year off trying to get back who is willing to swim 5-6x/week to get better over the next two months (followed by masters group in January 3x/week)?

Thanks for checking out the channel and subscribing. I appreciate it. It goes a long way in helping me.

Do 5-6x a week for 6 months, but be smart about how you build into it. Get a good S&C program. Lift 3x a week.

But ultimately, it all depends on what you want to accomplish with the swim. Set out a goal at the start. Do you have a goal of “I want to drop 20 seconds off my 500 time trial” for example? Or is it, I want to swim 5-6x a week. Figure out a goal and I can tell you if it’s doable with the amount of work you want to put in.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Thats the hardest part of tri. Balancing all 3 disciplines. No way I have time to swim 5-6x a week for the next 6 months. (and still bike and run)

I am 47 nand know that S&C is so important at this point. I've done a lot of it over the last few years and am convinced its part of why I was able to run so well in my first marathon.

Yet with time limits, I wasn't going to do strength in the same way as I did last year and was even gonna just skip it all together the next two months so I could dedicate my limited time to swim and bike.

So if anyone out there can help me find a job where I make more money and can work less hours and have more flexible hours, I am available. HA!

Just building on this, I'm a couple of years older, and 2-3 pilates classes a week are the foundation of my training. That said I can still fit a 50+ hour working week in (office job) on top of being able to hold about 15-18 hours a week of SBR training in. Come peak season I've done a month of over 25 hours, but that's not long term sustainable and does result in work being pulled back to 45hours and it being flexed more than typically.

The way I do it is 4:40am starts for a 5:30 swim squad Tuesday and Thursday, 5am rest of week, 6am weekends. And any 8:30 bedtime. It's amazing how if you give up the junk TV you can find 2hrs a day which is 10 hours just in the week. The other thing I'd say really really helps with the bike is finding a good cycle club (not triathletes that do a joint bike ride) as they are more likely to still ride through the year, at least aside from unusual strorms. And that weekly 4-5 hour saturday ride at steady pace (probably that Z2 when not on the front) accompanied by some long efforts in sweetspot as you do the 'segment' climbs just gets you to the start of the tri season with endurance, strength and mentally strong as it's not been a winter of 4 hour ziwifting or trainer road (note, I do also do 3-4 zwift sessions a week, 1-2 hours, some recovery some hard intervals. Again, doing those at 5:15am, means I'm done and in the office for 7:15-7:45 which then gives me the option to stretch lunch out a bit to fit a 10k run in or get finished at 5pm and so get a slighty longer run in and then still eat and be ready for sleep at 8:30.

There's a lot in here to go through. Sub-10 seems doable with an open sub-3 marathon + downriver swim. Makes sense to focus on the bike since it'll be ~60% of the event. I wouldn't stop running altogether though. It takes a lot to build the run back up. Even 2-3 runs/week will keep you decently fit. Same deal with weights. The science says that even lifting 1x/week is enough for maintenance. I would do that versus nothing at all. But, honestly, now is the time to lift 2ish times/week & then cut back to 1x in season.

I would bike more than 1-2x/week. You have tons of time so I agree that you don't have to be cranking out a ton of quality 11 months out. This is kind of your pre-base building phase. 3-4 rides, 2-3 swims, 2-3 runs. Something like that. That could get you 8-12 hours & then you're more ready for the planned 14-15.

As far as the biking goes I would consider a bigger block to be 200+ miles in a week (8-10 hours or so). I've also started up with a new coach recently & have done 3 days/week (~6-7 hours) w./ a ton of intensity -- 2x VO2 + 1x threshold in a long ride really aimed at improving my FTP/70.3 potential. That intensity has me riding every other day because the individual sessions are so hard. The former can be done in 4ish rides. Daily rides in the 1.5-2hr range. Long ride 3-4 hours. Sweet spot/tempo reps in the base build.

I have known a lot of elite age group athletes over the years, including myself. None of us got to where we were by stopping or drastically reducing training in one of the disciplines in order to improve in another. What we did do is increase frequency and intensity of sessions in our weakest sport, while still maintaining volume in the other two. When I switched from colllegiate running to triathlon, I was not a great swimmer. My first year I was swimming 1500m in around 25 minutes. I was able to get down to 20 minutes within a few years by swimming 5-6 times per week, while still doing the 150-200 miles of biking and 30-45 miles of running. During the off season I would swim 3-4 hard and 1-3 easy sessions a week, while doing 0-1 kind of hard session in the run and 1 hard session on the bike. I don't claim to know your personal situation, available training time, goals or desire to be the best in the sport. What I do know is that the best way to become a great triathlete is to train consistently year round in all 3 disciplines. Cheers.

Answering the question that is the title of the thread - something like 1500 miles a month is what I'd call a big bike block. I did this during Covid shut down, riding 2-3 hours most days. Intensity was 90% easy, 10% hard to very hard. I saw my FTP jump up nearly 10% after two months of this sort of biking, which was my biggest jump in 10+ years (went from 340 to around 370). It opened my eyes to the reason that pro athletes train so much and why all of those easy miles are so important.

Balancing workouts as a triathlete is the hardest aspect of training, and tailoring that to each athlete is important. I have one athlete I coach who only runs 1-2 times a week due to long-standing run injuries. He's able to run low 6 miles in a race due to a strong running background in sprint distance races, which is pretty impressive on minimal running during training. That low run volume does allow us to focus on his areas of weakness, which are being addressed over the winter months.

I'm honestly not at all familiar with the TR training plans - I know a lot are now AI based training, which certainly has its pros and cons. Listening to your body along with consistency over time are two huge determining factors for success. I can't tell you how many times I pushed through something a bit too much, then developed an injury. Listening to the body is a skill that is learned, much like dialing in effort without having metrics in front of you.

---

Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Nice video Tim - chopped up a bunch of different videos (particularly all the drills) with the voice over all throughout and I think it made for a great effect.

Hypothesis - drills can sometimes make you feel / learn different movements that you can't feel / learn as quickly by just swimming. But just swimming gives you the fitness to do the new / better / more efficient movements. I gather this is part of your philosophy with resistance implements.

A drill I did the other day for the first time was 1 arm freestyle, breathing to the right, but instead of recovering over the water with my left arm, I recovered under the water. Was good to work on a few things in the left arm pull and right arm recovery in terms of timing and where to start my pull on the left side.

Now to turn that new feeling / sensation into better swimming over the next few weeks / months / years

Back in the day, I was riding about 250 miles per week for several years.

I decided to do a big bike block and see how it affected me. I rode 1,155 miles in two weeks. After that, I knew that I could easily ride 112 miles in less than five hours.

Thanks. Glad you liked it.

The primary focus should be the skill, but that also includes the fitness. The technique will only be as good as the fitness that supports it.

Tim

---

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com