http://www.nytimes.com/...cycling/26micro.html

The internet is your friend.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

the NY Times article does not explain to me how you actually micro dose. How you figure out a 'safe' micro dosing level. How much it actually costs. So tell me.....or just admit that you don't actually know more than what everyone else has already heard. If it means so much to you, why not find out? Or are you just lazy and ranting?

Read the post of yours I just responded to. As to costs, that depends on what youre doing some start as simple as getting the pharmacist to give you pseudoephredrine all the way up to EPO and CERA. EPO is about 3-600 a week depending on the dosing as I understand it. http://www.e-anabolics.com/epo-erythropoietin.html is one of many easily found sources on the web.

Our question has never been how expensive is it to dope, its expensive, and unless youre winning top level prize money or have a day job that lets you afford it, its got to be hard to justify. What weve hard trouble figuring out is how much it costs to test. Weve gotten some hints in this thread, but its not anything we can confirm.

Note: I am not suggesting in any way should anyone do this. Im simply giving him the answer as to what it is and what it costs.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

The dopers work with doctors (as the article does say) to tell them how much, usually its at an "anti-aging" clinic where doctors prescribing steroids dont get as much of a raised eyebrow from the FDA. If theyre obtaining it illegally they probably get doping instructions from someone else who dopes. That part I dont know because I dont dope.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

Can you give the details of which doctors or "anti-aging" clinics are prescribing PED's to athletes? Where is your evidence, or are you just regurgitating?

Well the ones who have been caught arent doing it anymore (duh). As for where someone would go to find a doctor willing to do that I dont know. Here's one story http://www.velonation.com/...ng-ban-by-USADA.aspx I havent read this book yet, but I plan on it.

So every single thing I say in every post i have to take the time to put up the corresponding link to? Who is the lazy one now? Ive already proven to you that we can prove doping is expensive and its illegal but fairly easy to get the equipment. Of course understanding how to do it is different. Ive never been to an anti-aging clinic but ex dopers have admitted thats how they got them here in the US. Its legal in the US with prescription and thats what ive read they do. My understanding is that its easier to get in other countries. Ill have to find the source, because I read it a while ago, but A Scandinavian coach was in africa with his team and wanted to see how hard it would be to get EPO. It took him 15 minutes. I want to say it was in Velo or something, but Id have to look. As I dont dope, I can only come by some of the information on how they do it from what Ex dopers and those that have helped them have said to press or law enforcement. Some of that stuff we have to take at what has been said and what the folks in the labs can verify.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

So you can't give details. All you can do is post links to websites. You've done no quality investigative work to test the truth of things. But you are uber keen to talk as though you know.

Nonetheless, thanks for replying. Though alas, you offer nothing of real use. Time would be better invested training. So I'm off to do just that. I wish you well, we'll high-five at a race some day.

Sorry I guess I dont know what details youre looking for? On HOW to microdose? Why would you want to know that??? Im not going to go try doping to understand more on how to do it, if thats what youre suggesting. There are admitted ex dopers and people sold (Joe Papp as an example) who have discussed microdosing and people who have explained what the value they feel they got out of it.

As for me, I trained this afternoon, but enjoy your workout. I dont like working out this late (im in Eastern time zone).

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

And you would know the number that escaped how?

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TriRaceBook.com
.
Hawaii Qualification Analysis

I thought a little bit about what you said. I don't know if you've ever seen this, but this was the first piece that ever really turned me onto the fact that doping is a lot easier to do than most people think, and if someone can afford it they can probably find someone to help them. It's an 8 year old story now, but I think it provides at least the basis for what you were asking me. http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/Drug-Test.html

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

It was easy when he was a cyclist. He said no, and went & had a 30 minute shower. Guess what he did during that half hour?

Homie would like to offer a brief musical intermission to this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdopMqrftXs

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Banging an Olsen twin(s)?

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I LOLed. Thanks.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

You're all idiots. Doping isn't an issue in triathlon, or at least as widespread of an issue as you all think it is. With a few exceptions, there is almost zero money in triathlon (or at least most young pros are scraping by), and PEDS are probably really expensive--even if a triathlete wanted to dope, he'd have to rob someone first in order to pay for the drugs. I once read that a full course of HGH for a year cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000. Obviously there are cheaper methods than some form of HRT, but when money is tight, $500 or even $50 is a big recurring cost.

Beyond that though, you know what the difference between amateurs and pros is? Pros don't just sit around speculating why everyone else is faster than them--they go out and train their asses off and get faster.

Quit worrying about what everyone else is doing, quit throwing around wild allegations about the prevalence of cheating, get off your ass and train.

(Addressed to everyone except B. Marsh, Rappstar, and any other pros who may have chimed in already)

---

__________________________

I tweet!

Geez, can't you be glad someone is trying? If some pros aren't remotely likely to win a podium spot, why is it worth WTC's time to test them other than to say "we caught someone!?" Unless it's a big name I don't think many people will care or even notice.

Do you want every local tri with prize money to start testing AG winners? If an AGer needs to dope they must be a pretty pathetic person with serious problems. Also, you seem to have a borderline crazy obsession about this topic.

---

________________________________________
Check out my sad excuse for a blog:
http://brianstriblog.blogspot.com/

HGH is a lot cheaper than you think. Stories in Outside and other publications about obtaining it legally in the US (which is more expensive than getting it illegally overseas or on the web) has the cost of HGH at about $750-$1000 a month. Some of those stories are a few years old, but it can't have gone up by a factor of 10 in price in that time. EPO, thats a different story; its at least twice (at minimum depending on dosage, see the link above to the very first place I looked on the web) but can probably be gotten cheaper over the web or outside the US. Maybe its not as prevalent in pros as some think, but whats that statistic people are always throwing about? Oh yeah, median income for AG triathletes is ~$100k. Theres a group that can afford it.

And Im training as per my coaches instruction, but thanks for the kind encouragement.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

I dont know where they should draw the line, but I think with AG usage up in cycling and the testing results/people popping positive to prove it, it seems unlikely it isnt up in tri as well. Im not crazy or obsessed. People are talking a lot about it right now, and its a subject Im interested in. Some people want to spend all their time here talking about stack height and other minutia of bike fit. I prefer this topic. Once the interest dies down some as the next race Lance does or whatever new thing happens, people will stop talking about it as much, until someone else gets reported as popping positive.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

"And you would know the number that escaped how?"

there are a finite number of people who won, or podiumed, in the grand tours and the classics during this period of time.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I may be misinterpreting, and I dont meant to, so Im asking: are you saying you feel everyone on the podium in the grand tours of that period were likely guilty of doping?

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

No. He is saying that there are X number of podium slots, and there are Y number of athletes that have been caught or admitted to doping. Solve for Z.

OK, thanks. that makes sense.

---

-------------------------------------
You don't have to like what I say but you should respect my right to say them and I'll do the same to you.

"I may be misinterpreting, and I dont meant to, so Im asking: are you saying you feel everyone on the podium in the grand tours of that period were likely guilty of doping?"

no. i'm saying that if you look at the real stars in cycling in the period between, say, 1995 and 2010, and if you define these as those who're on the podium in a grand tour, and who won or got 2nd in the spring classics, there's a pretty good likelihood of getting found out as a drug taker. if you further grant that SOME of those folks were not talking drugs - for example, i think sastre was probably clean, but who knows for sure? - then the odds of getting popped at some point in your career are pretty high.

i say this just to refute the idea that the dopers always prevail in the anti-doping war.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I think you can expand that period to 1900-2010. It's just that cycling only got serious in finding and punishing doping users after the early 90s (after disgraces like the PDM scandal for example). Before that, testing was lax, and even getting caught would earn you maybe a one or two month suspension. Zoetemelk got caught maybe 2 or 3 times over his career, but nobody remembers him as a cheat. Can you imagine a current rider being caught even twice? You're talking Ricco in the effect on your career.

---

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Well, did anyone find out if he passed the test?

jaretj