Understanding Strokes Per Minute

Jan 17, 13 8:00

Post #1 of 25 (21134 views)

Hi,

After a looooong layoff, I went swimming for the first time in over a year today, finally starting training again.

Anyway, being massively unfit, I set my workout as (meters) 100-200-300-100-200-300-200-100, on 20s rest, 1500m total, with the aim of swimming as relaxed as possible due to lack of any kind of fitness.

It's the first time I've swum with a 910xt, and the data threw up a surprise.

I swam all intervals at a pace between 1:53/100m and 1:58/100m, so they were pretty consistent, and I guess considering total lack of fitness, times are ok.

According to the watch, I had an average strokes per minute of 19-21 for each interval - this is for one arm only, so means my real strokes per minute is 38-42.

I looked on the swimsmooth website, and they have a chart which says that my spm is MUCH too low for the speed, and should thus be increased. Also, when I see videos of swimmers, all good swimmers seem to be well above 70spm.

I was wondering a few things, as I'm not sure how to improve my spm.

1. Does such a low spm mean I'm doomed? As a positive, can I assume my catch/pull are pretty good?
2. How do you go about speeding it up? After the workout I tried a length (25m) at about 60 and it nearly killed me, and my shoulders.
3. Why is 40 'low' what's wrong with that? What's the benefit of doing the same speed at a higher spm?

Oh, I breath bilaterally.

I'm sorry if it's a lot of questions.... but I've no idea how to proceed, and it makes a change from Lance debates.

Would really appreciate some answers

Richard

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 8:07

Post #2 of 25 (21120 views)

Hi Richard,

Sorry can't really help you on what the "ideal" spm would be but can tell you this. Swam growing up, college, and now masters... I have yet to hear anyone reference stroke-per-minute. Go with what works for you and feels the most efficient. Not worth hurting your shoulders trying to do what some website says you should do. Also depends on your effort levels I guess too. Most all swimmers are going to have a much higher turnover when doing 50,100,200 vs a 500 or 1650.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 10:03

Post #3 of 25 (21071 views)

I'm not at all suprised that you are near 40 spm for the speed you are going.

You are taking near 80 strokes per 100 or about 20 per length (short course) so unless you are 7 feet tall or 4 foot tall you're probably in a good range.

Now if you can bring your stroke rate up and still hold the ~20 per length (short course) then you will obviously be going faster. Just grab as much water as you can as fast as you can put it behind you.

For me swimming 1:20-1:25 I'm about 62 to 65 spm and I'm fairly short.

jaretj

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 10:03

Post #4 of 25 (21069 views)

As you get faster, your spm will naturally improve. At that speed, I think you're just out of shape and also probably having some technique problems. Swim more. Get qualified stroke instruction. Swim sets like a swimmer. SPM will sort itself out as you get stronger.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 10:10

Post #5 of 25 (21056 views)

I believe the 910 counts strokes per length and uses the time for that length count your SPM. This does not take into account the time you spent in your glide after the turn. Your actual SPM is higher.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 11:01

Post #6 of 25 (21002 views)

when did swim training get so confusing? garmin for swimming in the pool to measure spm for an athlete swimming nearly 2 minute per100?? do yourself a favor, leave the garmin at home and use that new gadget called a clock.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 11:15

Post #7 of 25 (20985 views)

I see someone already said it, your turns are not counted into the equation, so you can add a bunch of strokes before you get to your real number. It really is pretty easy to get your count if you are in a 50m pool. Do a treading water start and just swim across the pool normally and take your time at the end, counting each arm stroke. If it took you 45 seconds and you took 45 strokes, you can just add 25% to each for your SPM, so it would be 60. It is just a basic math problem, but you can see that you can get a good feel for your approximate strokes. And one lap is fine, just don't do anything different. This also assumes a 50m pool so there is no turn to try and figure out either..

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [monty] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 12:03

Post #8 of 25 (20944 views)

Push off wall. Breathe on your first stroke, read the clock. Swim to the other end, counting your strokes. Breathe on your last stroke, read the clock again. Subtract first read from second read, divide into sixty, multiply by stroke count. Done.

(And your example of 45 requires adding 33%, not 25% :-)

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 12:10

Post #9 of 25 (20929 views)

MeltingPot wrote:

when did swim training get so confusing? garmin for swimming in the pool to measure spm for an athlete swimming nearly 2 minute per100?? do yourself a favor, leave the garmin at home and use that new gadget called a clock.

A couple of weeks ago, a new guy shows up at the pool at five AM, and plants himself and all his toys in the end lane. He spends the next half hour mostly swimming very slowly with bad form or standing at the wall playing with some big-assed watch on his wrist. And we have three bright red synchronized digital clocks on the walls.

Could have been this guy.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 12:11

Post #10 of 25 (20922 views)

MeltingPot wrote:

when did swim training get so confusing? .

When triathletes came on the scene.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 12:32

Post #11 of 25 (20893 views)

(And your example of 45 requires adding 33%, not 25% :-)

I guess the math was not so simple!!!

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Richard Allbert] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 12:52

Post #12 of 25 (20868 views)

To grossly over simplify, strokes per minutes is kind of like cadence on a bike. Finding the "ideal" SPM is very personalized to the athlete and event. My suggestion is to ditch the gadgets at the pool and to increase your turnover (if that's what you feel you need to do) swim fast a lot (think 25-50s).

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 13:07

Post #13 of 25 (20851 views)

Because it's fun trying new things out.

Thanks everyone else for the helpful replies :)

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 13:08

Post #14 of 25 (20848 views)

klehner wrote:

MeltingPot wrote:

when did swim training get so confusing? garmin for swimming in the pool to measure spm for an athlete swimming nearly 2 minute per100?? do yourself a favor, leave the garmin at home and use that new gadget called a clock.

A couple of weeks ago, a new guy shows up at the pool at five AM, and plants himself and all his toys in the end lane. He spends the next half hour mostly swimming very slowly with bad form or standing at the wall playing with some big-assed watch on his wrist. And we have three bright red synchronized digital clocks on the walls.

Could have been this guy.

Lol, you can take it out of your hand now.

What a pain in the ass this forum can be, man.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 13:15

Post #15 of 25 (20830 views)

You don't even need to worry about you SPM right now. Focus on your technique, efficiency and endurance. Speed and SPM will come.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [xxxddddd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 13:20

Post #16 of 25 (20820 views)

Get some bands for your ankles with a snorkel, pull buoy, paddles, MP3 player on left ear, metronome on right ear and your arm computer. That is the only way to fix the SPM debacle you are experiencing.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [xxxddddd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 14:23

Post #17 of 25 (20767 views)

Don't worry about your stroke count. Arm length controls a large amount of strokes per 50. You should compare your self to taller swimmer with stroke count averages. Just you and the clock vs perceived exertion. I also use a garmin for my test sets and long swims, in a 25 m pool it's hard to count laps. But the watch isn't 100% accurate on each lap, depends on which arms moves first and even vs odd stoke count per lap .

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 14:41

Post #18 of 25 (20747 views)

Quote:

Don't worry about your stroke count.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfrAba7Nfqs

quote 1: "... they're good swimmers. There are none of them who swim under 80 to 100 strokes per minute ..."
quote 2: "most triathletes in my opinion, you swim too slow, triathletes you just swim too slow, you think oh i have to swim 2.4 miles, let me just see how far i can get in an hour, you just swim too slow"

watch the above cited Gerry Rodriguez. Prepare to revise your ideas.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [PaulDavis] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 14:52

Post #19 of 25 (20722 views)

Gerry is pure gold. That series is fantastic. Not what most triathletes want to hear......

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [xxxddddd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 15:18

Post #20 of 25 (20699 views)

I don't think 910xt includes the turns. so numbers it gives are significantly less than they should be especially in a short course pool.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [PaulDavis] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 15:22

Post #21 of 25 (20693 views)

Don't worry about your stoke counts was in response to him worried about going higher. As don't worry if your count goes up and you go faster. I am agreeing with you.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 15:35

Post #22 of 25 (20681 views)

If a person is going to sweat over stroke count - wouldn't SWOLF be a better indicator?

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [xxxddddd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 18:51

Post #23 of 25 (20606 views)

xxxddddd wrote:

2. How do you go about speeding it up? After the workout I tried a length (25m) at about 60 and it nearly killed me, and my shoulders.
3. Why is 40 'low' what's wrong with that? What's the benefit of doing the same speed at a higher spm?
Richard

Your shoulders were killing you because you swam for the first time in a long time. Ultimately, you should really be hitting closer to that 60 number. You do that gradually as you gain fitness. 40 is "low" because you're just spending too much time gliding and basically not swimming to your potential. Ultimately, you shouldn't be swimming the same speed. You should be able to go much faster at a higher spm, so that's the benefit.

_______________________________________________________
John Kenny, Pro Triathlete, USAT Certified Coach - http://www.frenchcreekracing.com
Philly Masters and Open Water
Swim and Multisport Events

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [xxxddddd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 17, 13 18:56

Post #24 of 25 (20602 views)

xxxddddd wrote:

Hi,

After a looooong layoff, I went swimming for the first time in over a year today, finally starting training again.

Anyway, being massively unfit, I set my workout as (meters) 100-200-300-100-200-300-200-100, on 20s rest, 1500m total, with the aim of swimming as relaxed as possible due to lack of any kind of fitness.

It's the first time I've swum with a 910xt, and the data threw up a surprise.

I swam all intervals at a pace between 1:53/100m and 1:58/100m, so they were pretty consistent, and I guess considering total lack of fitness, times are ok.

According to the watch, I had an average strokes per minute of 19-21 for each interval - this is for one arm only, so means my real strokes per minute is 38-42.

I looked on the swimsmooth website, and they have a chart which says that my spm is MUCH too low for the speed, and should thus be increased. Also, when I see videos of swimmers, all good swimmers seem to be well above 70spm.

I was wondering a few things, as I'm not sure how to improve my spm.

1. Does such a low spm mean I'm doomed? As a positive, can I assume my catch/pull are pretty good?
2. How do you go about speeding it up? After the workout I tried a length (25m) at about 60 and it nearly killed me, and my shoulders.
3. Why is 40 'low' what's wrong with that? What's the benefit of doing the same speed at a higher spm?

Oh, I breath bilaterally.

I'm sorry if it's a lot of questions.... but I've no idea how to proceed, and it makes a change from Lance debates.

Would really appreciate some answers

Richard

With all due respect, if you are swimming 1:50 100's, then arguing whether you should take 5 strokes per length more or less is a bunch of bullsh$t. Get an in-person swim coach, & learn how to swim faster.

Re: Understanding Strokes Per Minute [xxxddddd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 18, 13 4:59

Post #25 of 25 (20503 views)

I also don't know who uses spm. My friend, who was almost a swimming pro, trains me in swimming. He doesn't use spm.

I use strokes/lap on my 910xt. I train at a pace of 1:10 - 1:15 / 100yd and keep my strokes/lap at between 9 and 10, thus making it 18 to 20 for both arms.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Speed Concept 9 (race)
Madone 5 (training)
Trek 1000 (rain/snow/sleet/monsoon)

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