Very confusing and unfortunate. My only thoughts:

Why can't we all get along? It's all swim/bike run! The reality is that the sport of triathlon is too small to have this sort of internal division and the sport would be much better off, as it says in the 1998 document if everyone cooperated and worked together to foster the growth of the sport.

Fleck

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Here's how I see it.

WTC-Thinks it's the biggest bad ass in the sport and wants to flex its muscles. Could be right or wrong in the thoughts, but thinks it doesn't need anyone else.

USAT-Is feeling the heat from the WTC and some of the races that it puts out. Feels like the old lion that may be taken down by the younger lion soon. Needs to flex its muscles to show the WTC who is boss.

ITU-You think you can have a 'world' championship? Who's world are you talking about? We don't need you! Wait, we can't do that because of something we signed in 1998? crap.

'cmon.

"get along" ?

you've got a bunch of screwball A types playing their little turf war but none of 'em are smart enough to figure out there isn't enough turf to go around.

each and every one of them needs to do, as in go the distance, at least 10 races over the next 6 months, and maybe they'll have a better idea what's what.

---

Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

I'm not a lawyer, but what was signed in 1998 seems to exempts only the Ironman Triathlon World Championship from being a "self-declared" world championship. IMO, the "Ironman 70.3 World Championship" is not exempt and also is not covered by the document's list of WTC trademarks and tradenames. I may be in the minority, but I agree with ITU.

Just out of curiosity, how does all this hoopla affect your normal every day triathlete?

"I'm not a lawyer, but what was signed in 1998 seems to exempts only the Ironman Triathlon World Championship from being a "self-declared" world championship. IMO, the "Ironman 70.3 World Championship" is not exempt and also is not covered by the document's list of WTC trademarks and tradenames. I may be in the minority, but I agree with ITU. "

...but it appears that WTC carefully excluded the word "triathlon" from the IM 70.3 WC. ITU doesn't own the rights to ALL world champiuonships...only triathlons. Remember when they tried to tie the name "triathlon" to only the Olympic distance? If IM70.3 is not billed as a triathlon, only as an IM....hmmmmmm.

---

________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

The smaller the stakes, the fiercer the battles.

I don't care. If I win the 70.3 World Championship event, I am STILL promoting myself as Champion of the World... I might even get me a championship belt, like in boxing.

Let the ITU pry that belt from my cold, dead waist.

---

beyourownsuperhero

I believe you are correct. WTC can't use Triathlon World Champs, just Ironman World Champs, and last thing I understood was the WTC does not own the trademark Ironman, they just license it from Marvel Comics. Is this still true ? If so, the comic super hero is having the final laugh. I think we have to start a new comic superhero called 70.3man and another one called Triathlonman.

It's true, Marvel Comics does indeed own the trademark "Ironman" and will for as long as they can make really shitty superhero movies with Ben Affleck.

---

-----
"I do my best to slay" - Matt Pike

OH yeah, if anyone from WTC and GTG is reading, let's just get it over with and wipe out the ITU by also starting the Ironman 32.2 Series (1.5K swim, 40K bike, 10K run). You could have 10 Ironman 32.2 World Cups and then end it off every season with World Championship on Hilton Head Island South Carolina (oops I confused 2005 for 1985...)

Dev

"WTC can't use Triathlon World Champs,"

Whatever, the case thay are still doing this. If you go to Ironmanlive .com, the banner at the top of the page says the Ford Ironman Triathlon World Championships. Which is not a big deal but it gives the impression that this is the World Championships for triathlon if you don't really know what's going on. If you do know what's going on then you know that it is in reality, the Ironman World Championships. That's what they can honestly call it.

I think where this whole thing got off the rails was years ago when Ironman was trade marked as a brand/business. Think how different the sport of running may( or may not) be if the word marathon had somehow been trademarked and owned by, say the Boston Marathon( the BAA)!

Fleck

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

"but it appears that WTC carefully excluded the word "triathlon" from the IM 70.3 WC. ITU doesn't own the rights to ALL world champiuonships...only triathlons. Remember when they tried to tie the name "triathlon" to only the Olympic distance? If IM70.3 is not billed as a triathlon, only as an IM....hmmmmmm. "

Regardless, it's all swim/bike/run and thus, a triathlon. What eles are you going to call it?

Fleck

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Actually the agreement states that ITU and USAT recognize WTC's superior rights in the mark "Ironman Triathlon World Championship"

So they CAN use the mark without ITU's interference.

---

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

The thing that really hacks my shorts about this is that we live in a world/country where people feel it is necessary to enforce and give rights to a title as spacious as "Worlds".

I'm going to start some dumbass race and call it the World Championships. It'll be sanctioned, officated and run by me and anyone else that wants to help. Aragant pricks

~Matt

As I said - whatever.

The point is, that to the casual outside observer it appears that IMH is the World Championship of triathlon. I have had people, who know nothing about the sport ask me this or refer to the IMH winner as the World Traithlon Champion. To those INSIDE the sport, we know that this is NOT the case that the winner of IMH is the Ironman World Champion, just as the winner of the marathon at the World Athletics Championships, is the World Marathon Champion.

It's not that big a deal really, but when it comes to selling sponsorships or licensing agreements it can have a dramatic impact on the value of the property that you are selling.

I realize that it is a bit of a monopoly, but in just about every other serious sport that I can think of, it's the world governing body that controls the use of the words, "World Championship". Right or wrong, that certainly puts some clarity to the situation.

As I said, where this got off the rails was years ago when ironman ceased being a word to describe a distance within a sport like the word "marathon" in running, and became it's own trademark and business entity.

Fleck

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Donald Trump owns the Miss Universe title...and baseball has a World Series that only includes American teams from one organization. WTC seems to be setting themselves up to expand the definition of "Ironman" to include whatever distances they deem marketable...and their agreement with USAT/ITU gives them the right to promote races however they see fit, as long as it is under the "Ironman" name, even having their own world championships. I think they have a strong case. ITU has made it pretty clear that their sole focus is on draft legal Olympic distance racing, a sport that didn't exist before Les McDonald "invented"it and is forbidden from participation by the masses. If they had embraced triathlon on an age group level, worldwide, I might feel differently about their legitamacy.

---

________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

and McDonalds owns the "rights" to "smile"...doesn't chaneg my point that I find it petty that someone would sue over a word or try and stop someone else from using it.

Simply stated WTC "World" championship is different than USAT or ITU "World" championship. I can see if WTC was calling their Ironman the USAT "World" championship that's using something that is uniquely USAT's but "World" come on. Smile!

~Matt

You make an excellent point. As long as they include the "Ironman" brand, why can't they call it a "World Championship?" One point of clarification to your post, though... there are a couple of Canadian MLB teams, too... not that that makes any difference to the point of your argument.

---

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

 They have baseball in Europe and Asia, but last time I looked on a map, Canada was located in North America...doesn't that make them American? Kinda like, since French is a Latin based language as much as Spanish, and Canada is in America, does that make Celine Dione a Latin American singer?;-)

---

________________________________________________________________________
"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

They have a lot of "American" baseball in S. America, too, then, but no teams in MLB. The connotation of "American" is from the U.S. of America. "Canadian" typically means from Canada. Semantically, I guess you're correct. As Canadians are from N. America, they would be "Americans," just not in the sense that most of the world tends to equate with "American."

---

-------------------------------------
Steve Perkins

Ironman trademarked their name in the 80's. That was years before ITU was even formed. It didn't get off track, cause someone at Ironman had the Foresight to protect their interests, so the millions they pumped into the event and the Brand didn't disappear, once a governing body came along, and proclaimed themselves "king". That was very very smart by ironman.

Next, ITU pushes them in the mid-90's, WTC takes them to task and gets them to sign and ACKNOWLEDGE ironman's preexisting rights. Yet again, smart. Now ITU is at it again, blatantly ignoring the agreement they signed in 98.

It is a shameful way to do business. You can say all you want about WTC, however, they are smart. The did it legally. They beat ITU at every turn. Or everyone else for that matter.

Regardless of what you think of WTC, they followed the rules, they are the ones acting ethically. That IS the point.

The ITU/USAT obviously have NO integrity, and are not going to follow any agreement, just because they stop feeling like they have to honor it.

That is what pisses me off.

Hats off to the WTC/Ironman. You are smarter then everyone else.

There is also the trademark "Iron Man" (bodybuilding magazine) that was coined by Peary and Mabel Rader, and now is owned and ran by Steve Holman (I think?).

I think they now, put it as one-word, "Ironman" and not two. They have "Ironman" bodybuilding comps too.

---

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Some questions for USAT -

How can USAT can deny WTC affiliated events sanctions, but they continue to sanction the lifetime fitness triathlon, even though ITU has a resolution barring that one as well.

Why does USAT allow the XTERRA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPs to be sanctioned? Does Xterra have a signed agreement with ITU to use World Championship?

Seems to be me that USAT is playing favorites in this game. Z