Thank You.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

I never said anything about a fix, nor did he so I honestly have no clue what you think I actually said.

What he did say is that the board shouldn't act based on their personal beliefs, I showed an example of what is a board of elected officials representing their members (citizens) is in capable of doing this so why should anyone expect a private board with zero actual accountability suddenly be expected to ignore personal beliefs.

So to be clear in private enterprise where personal beliefs are allowed it is not ok. But in government where the constitution actually says they aren't, then it is ok?


It isn't a matter of agree to disagree since I"m not even disagreeing with you, but since you are apparently in fight mode you want to make it that way.

All I did was point out that your utopia doesn't exist.

Nobody talks about Fight Mode!

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

Regarding what? Dinner? The color for my next bike?


Someone pointed out to you that morality differs with peoples beliefs, you said that people will put them aside, and I gave a great example of how and where that doesn't happen at a level that most certainly should be void of them. I wasn't saying that it shouldn't be so or suggesting I had a different proposal, not that you even proposed anything yourself.

Hobby Lobby, FTW!

And FYI, USAT is neither private enterprise or govt, it's a non-profit.

Dan, Do I understand correctly that he is an elected board member? If yes, when is the next election and in which district does he serve.

It is the responsibility of those who elected or appointed him, to remove him since he will not step down.

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I've actually clapped at several of your posts, this one was no different!

"Do I understand correctly that he is an elected board member? If yes, when is the next election and in which district does he serve."

he serves through next year, that is, through 2015. a vote would take place roughly a year from now to seat a new member (Texas), and he would replace jack in january of 2016.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Well said. And I think the vast majority of board members in any organization feel the same. That Jack feels differently says a lot about his character--that he believes the board position is more about its importance to him than it is about the good of triathlon.

I don't need to judge his entire character based on the abuse incident; the action was grievously wrong, and he should resign because of that one action, regardless how good or bad the rest of his character has been in the other 67 years of his life. For the reasons you wrote, that one action is enough to trigger resignation.

But his refusal to resign does indeed speak loudly about his entire character. His feeling of entitlement to a position of power, simply because he has served there for a long time, is the type of entrenchment that sends organizations into the realm of the dinosaur. And I can't help but think it's those type of attitudes that contributes to the dysfunction of usat.

Jack, this isn't about you, or what you deserve, or what you think you are entitled to. It is about the good of triathlon, and your ability to work toward that end. You've lost that ability, whether deservedly or not. For you to cling to your position is to pretend that no one else in the entire country is more capable of performing those duties. Do you really believe that?

I have been following thread throughout the day. I'm almost afraid to answer in fears that people like Travis T my chew me a new one. The anger towards Slowman early on in the thread was a bit nasty. He too voiced an opinion and although I don't believe he honestly believes that abuse and cheating are the same I see where he was going with it as far as loyalty and honor. It is just too bad IMO that the thread had to begin to center around him and not about jack Weiss who up until today I did not know. Should he step down .... yes. That is my opinion.

Dan,
I hope the board is very careful in how pushing Jack out might be accomplished. Poorly worded changes in bylaws could possibly be used by a self-serving board to silence or remove members with whom they disagree. Or with whom they have some personal (negative) history. Better to have a clear, unambiguous definition of conduct unbecoming a board member than a fuzzy one.

The above having been said, I'm struggling to come up with such a standard that removes Jack but still allows for repentance and redemption. Many here might say that I shouldn't get hung up on that last part, after all, I wouldn't have a problem telling a convicted murderer that he couldn't, ever, sit on the board. That's true, and maybe the question isn't about forgiveness (really between Jack and his wife) versus who we want representing us at USAT. So you're left with, I think, coming up with a list of crimes/actions that cross the threshold and amending the bylaws--an process that is difficult to do carefully on 'internet time'. Or a recall (probably not realistic, requiring 10% of the region to sign for it), or wait until the next election.

I believe he was referencing fixing or removing members that don't put the good of the represented organization and the organizations members first, above personal individual self.

The difference is the size of the organization in question. USAT is a lot smaller than the US congress. Unfortunately, I do wish we had term limits for everyone and once an elected official strays from their elected path, they should be able to be voted out of their position. But that is really beyond our current scope.

I realize that my voice is not heard in our federal government as officials are elected by corporations and not by citizens, but at some lower level, I would hope that a group (SlowTwitch) that has a voice, can be heard by an organization that represents us as a whole (for triathlon) and can therefore be able to change and be more dynamic because it is smaller in relative size.

I hope that USAT can take a closer look at the issue at hand, not because of our mob-mentality, but because there are a few rational thoughts in this thread.

Triathlon is an activity/sport that can lend it's hand to healing. There are a lot of troubled people that find comfort in swimming/biking/running. A lot of spiritual recovery in triathlon. But when the wound is raw and maybe too deep to ignore, then maybe we need to take a look at it and re-evaluate what can be done. USAT is our governing body and represents it's members. The members are questioning something. I hope they can re-evaluate. Maybe the outcome is the same, but I think it's worth more of a deep-dive investigation into our collective concerns.

(general question/follow up on this idea and not directly intended for you to respond)

What exactly does his offense have to do with triathlon and his ability to work? What does his offense have to do with his ability to be treasurer, or whatever he was? Is he no longer capable of doing his job in the same way because of it?

Having not read the by laws, but what implications does his stepping down possibly cause? Are resources wasted beyond that of what his staying there would be? both monetary and that of the boards time? Does it leave a gap that other members would then have to fill? Does it cause progress in the organization to be slowed down?

In all seriousness, if one was to ignore personal feelings on the actual issue, couldn't someone stepping down actually hurt the organization more?


I'm in no way saying he should stay with these questions, they are just questions.

I understand what he was saying, I was saying that is adorable that he believes people actually do that and used congress as an example and not in anyway suggesting one should be fixed before the other.

Page 29


"Section 6. Any officer may be removed from his/her position as an officer by
a majority vote of the Board, with or without cause."

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

The one major issue that I see all social media have issues with is the ability to show how few people can debate. Debate means smart folks can talk about any topic, having various opinions, but never cross the line by attacking personally the other, or getting emotional. On this forum I see a few that clearly would never
be able to cut it on a debate team.

One of my big flaws is I love to debate. I love to hear others opinions on any topic. This allows me to consider if an opinion I have at the moment may need
to be changed with new data.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Just copy what the NBA used to get rid of one of their owners.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

USAT adopted a USA Triathlon Code of Ethics and Conduct on August 1, 2013. That Code of Ethics and Conduct is signed by every USAT Board member and was signed by Jack Weiss. Section VI of that Code of Ethics and Conduct states that "USAT requires all Colleagues (defined as all directors, officers, committee members, volunteers, members, staff, interns and representatives of USAT) to abide by all applicable United States federal, state and local laws. Strike one. Section XIII of the Code of Ethics and Conduct in subsection A 5 states that "Any non-consensual physical conduct directed toward a Colleague is a violation of this code. Strike 2 assuming Jack's wife is a member of USAT which is likely the case since she was a race director. Section XIII of the Code of Ethics and Conduct in subsection A 6 states that "Any other material and intentional wrongful act, conduct or failure to act, which is detrimental to the image or reputation of USAT" is a violation of the Code of Ethics and Conduct. Strike 3. Section XIV of the Code of Ethics and Conduct states that "Anyone who violates the Code of Ethics and Conduct is subject to disciplinary measures which may include termination of membership and expulsion from governance, committees, councils, commissions or other positions."

The fact that USAT's Board and Ethic's Committee hasn't acted on this matter is a complete institutional failure.

Saw that, only applies to the Treasurer position, not the board seat (he isn't listed as treasurer on the website).

Except Powercranks, right? ;-)

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That provision of the by-laws allows the USAT Board to remove Jack as the Treasurer. It does not allow the Board to remove him from the Board. The fact that he has not been stripped of his Treasurer position is a complete institutional failure of the Board of Directors. The fact that he has not been removed from the Board is a failure of both the Ethics Committee and USAT's Hearings and Appeals Committee, both of which have the authority to remove him.

"I hope the board is very careful in how pushing Jack out might be accomplished."

you have identified the need for a careful approach. knowing this board as i do, and the splits that tend to occur, i promise you one side will root around looking for misdeeds committed by someone in an opposing bloc if that would disqualify someone for board service, or, trigger a vote for expelling a member for a spurious or dug up reason.

i got a lot of reach-outs privately from people who think that misdeeds not really governance related should not be grounds for removal. i think this point of view should be listened to, even if you come down on the other side. i do think the BOD code should be the athlete code plus, that is, we should expect more of our BOD than we do of a typical customer, because the customer is not in charge of a $15 million organization and is not the face of the sport.

in jack's case, even if there is no clear and compelling reason to leave the board because of the spousal battery, there is still the question of his effectiveness on the board, the image of the federation and the sport, and jack will have to weigh that.

just, going forward, you're exactly right. you can't just have a "moral turpitude" clause or else the board would be litigating with itself constantly. in 2005 one of my volunteer jobs was going from law office to law office, 3 or 4 law offices, cramming down legal fees the federation was billed for all the board members suing each other. which was my pleasure, because it was me on one side, a team of lawyers on the other side of the table. i had a ball. but i digress...

constant and expensive litigation is what our federation has to look forward to unless a new code of conduct is airtight, explicit and immune from politics.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

john,

you've broken 2 rules of this forum. first, you can't appropriate the name of somebody/something else for your own use. you are not USAT. if barry siff or rob urbach chooses to incept a user account with USAT as the name, that's fine. you have no such authority and you don't speak for the institution.

second, you can't have more than 1 slowtwitch reader forum identity. you already have one. so, i'm leaving your original account enabled, and if you want to post you should use that account. this "usat" account is disabled.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I agree with you. USAT should not have any kind of affiliation with anyone that has been involved with Domestic Violence, especially Jack Weiss. I am surprised that TYR, Power Bar, Gu, and all the other sponsors have not pulled away. If they allow Jack to stay in office, they are supporting the actions of this individual. Zero Tolerance!
I agree, how do you get rid of a cancer?

Did you know that:

• 1 in 4 women will experience domestic abuse once in their lifetime
• 85% of domestic abuse are women
• 1 in 12 women have been stalked
• 81% of women stalked by a current or former intimate partner are also physically assaulted by that partner
• Almost 1/3 of female homicide were killed by an intimate partner
• Only 1/4 of all assaults against women by intimate partners are reported to the police6

Look at the No More PSA:

Jack, must step down. If he doesn't do so, the organization is going to go down and all the women in the organization will not renew their membership and boycott the organization.
I feel sorry for the family that has to endure this, however, there are repercussions to their actions. Jack Weiss must step down.