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USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon
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Ever since getting into triathlon a few years ago and helping to found the triathlon team at my university (UCLA), USAT's support of collegiate triathlon has been a sore spot with me. After my first triathlon I realized I really sucked at cycling, so I joined the UCLA Cycling team with hopes to improve. Having now participated in collegiate cycling for several years, I've come to notice that the contrast between USA Cycling's support of collegiate cycling and USA Triathlon's support of collegiate triathlon is huge.

(I post this after reading this thread: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=557227)

Collegiate Cycling, at least here on the west coast is very well organized (see the 'constitution' here: http://soda.csua.berkeley.edu/...-04WCCC_rulebook.pdf). There is a conference director (current Alden Tanaka) who attends every race, organizes training camps with pro cyclists, etc. There is a standard team & individual point scoring system. A number of current top pro cyclists came through the collegiate ranks. Tyler Hamilton is perhaps the biggest name. But others just from my own conference include the Jacques-Maynes, Bernard Van Ulden, Marc Collard, Lucas Euser, Ben Haldeman, and many more. And many of these people specifically chose to focus on collegiate cycling even while riding for a pro team. I think this is demonstrative of how effective collegiate athletics can be, especially when well organized. (Not to mention the entire NCAA system).

Now, lets take a 180 and take a look at Collegiate Triathlon. I've only come to the sport fairly recently so my experience is limited, but this is what I see. There is no involement whatsoever by USAT, aside from the Collegiate National Championships. A few examples:

1) No effort to encourage or help schools start a triathlon team. It's taken me and a few friends four years to get the team at UCLA from zero to a legitimate self-sustaining organization. And now I periodically get e-mails from students across the country asking how they can get their team off the ground. Shouldn't USAT be the one answering these questions? As a student I don't have time to write the manual on "How to start a Collegiate Triathlon Team." I assume a lot of other established teams get similar e-mails.

2) No effort in developing competition regions or conferences. The schools here in California have been forced to band together to create our own conference. We've called it the West Coast Collegiate Triathlon Conference (WCCTC, currently composed of Cal, UCLA, UCSB, UC Davis, Sac State, UCSD, Cal Poly, Reno, Stanford, Long Beach, SDSU). Even the effort to get all the schools communicating has been tough. Not to mention developing our own individual and team points-based scoring system. This year CalPoly will even be hosting our own self-labeled WCCTC Championships (as opposed to the 'collegiate championships' you see without any real sanction from the schools themselves - e.g. Wildflower).

3) No effort to help schools host their own race. The schools of the WCCTC may be an exception, since just about every single school listed above puts on their own race. Helping schools host their own race would go a long way to establishing a conference race calendar and fostering the supportive atmosphere I've enjoyed in collegiate cycling. The very fact that you compete against the same people from the same schools every few weeks goes a long way to making this sport (or any sport) more enjoyable.

4) No communication with teams. Just as an example: Last year I got an e-mail advertising a USAT Regional Collegiate Triathlon Championships, which was to be held on the same date as a race one of our conference schools was hosting...and this only a few weeks out from Collegiate Nationals. Why have a regional championships a few weeks out from a national championships...especially when all the schools will be attending another race anyway. My team has never been directly contacted by USAT regarding collegiate issues, aside from those related to the National Championship race.

5) U23 vs. Collegiate Triathlon. USAT seems pretty comitted to developing U23 athletes. But none of that has transferred over to collegiate triathlon. Most students come to college when they are ~18 and graduate around 23. The entire collegiate infrastructure has existed in the country for years and years. Why not tap into it?! It's your targete age group! Develop the sport at a level where people are going to be encouraged and supported by people their own age. It is much more enjoyable to travel to a race with 25 of your college buddies than the one other guy in your town who is part of some USAT U23 program. Collegiate triathlon can support both the growth of the sport (by introducing people to it) and the development of elite athletes. When I look at the olympics it strikes me that many of our nation's top athletes are currently competing in college (Jeremy Wariner @ Baylor before he turned pro, for example) and ask why it eventually can't be the same for triathlon.

Anyhow, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the place of collegiate triathlon in our sport. Does it seem like a natural place for USAT to focus on? Why has so little been done and what will it take to change that?

Marcus George, President
UCLA Triathlon
http://www.triathlon.ucla.edu
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Very thoughtful post with lots of good points.

However, take a look at USAT as a whole and you might find your answer. USAT is an organization that can't even manage to hold one race of its own per year (age group nationals) without screwing it up, hold elections without screwing them up, work with its biggest client and arguably the biggest driver of the growth of the sport (WTC) without screwing that relationship up, and hire executive directors and other staff in a timely manner. Be careful what you ask for - do you really want those clowns bungling your collegiate programs?

Seems to me that the collegiate programs that you and your conference partners are developing are a great grassroots way to grow the sport outside the umbrella of USAT and will enable you to do things "the right way."

Chris

(edited to correct my crappy grammar)
Last edited by: crmartin9: Oct 25, 05 14:37
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [crmartin9] [ In reply to ]
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Be careful what you ask for - do you really want those clowns bungling your collegiate programs?

Seems to me that the collegiate programs that you and your conference partners is a great
grassroots way to grow the sport outside the umbrella of USAT and to do things "the right way."
Very valid point and something I've been thinking about as well. The thing is, what makes the collegiate cycling nice is that you have [I assume] a paid director who takes care of a lot the administrative stuff (such as results). At least at this point in the development of the WCCTC, it is all volunteer work by students. Some people are more dedicated to sports development than others. And when those students graduate, there goes all your organization. Hopefully as we get the ball rolling, the WCCTC will also become a self-perpetuating thing as well.

Marcus George, President
UCLA Triathlon
http://www.triathlon.ucla.edu
Last edited by: marcusgeorge: Oct 25, 05 15:28
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of very good points - Im up here at Cal, and we definitely share some of your frustrations. Your points are valid, but could apply to the entire triathlon community as a whole - does USAT provide help forming a club anywhere? If anything its MORE difficult for them to help collegiate, because they have to deal with the school for approval, a process that varies greatly from school to school.

Similarly, do they help races anywhere? They sent me a "how to start a race" form letter when I asked, but I imagine thats the same thing everyone gets.

Has anyone at WWCTC contacted USAT about our conference and discussed what they could do to help? As far as I know, its the first of its kind, and if theyre not willing to help us, theyll certainly want to see what happens.

The U23 situation, to the extent that I understand it, parallels US Cycling - great U23 collegiate triathletes arent in school, just as great U23 cyclists are.

The important thing is that race directors are starting to acknowledge collegiate triathlon - offering discounts, seperate waves, and occasionally prize money. I think thats far more important, because it affects us, whereas I dont see USAT affecting the collegiate or age group scene.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Another hindrance to a nation-wide system of college triathlon teams is the fact that for many schools, there really aren't any easily-accessible triathlons during the typical school year. I'm at the University of Michigan, and we just started a tri team here. However, there's not much we can do in terms of racing together because there are zero triathlons within reasonable travelling distance before the end of our winter term (at the end of April) and there are only a few left once schools tarts after Labor Day. On top of that, collegiate nationals is really hard for us to get to - I consider myself a typical poor college student, and don't have the resources to travel all over the country.

I agree that it would be nice for USAT to assist collegiate triathlon more as a tool to develop U23 athletes and promote the sport to young people. I also agree that they have a long way to go in terms of figuring out ways to not bungle things. As a dedicated duathlete (I don't do triathlons anymore... swimming's not my thing), I am incredibly disappointed in USAT's support of my discipline.They are stretched pretty thin as it is, and adding one more big responsibility won't help matters any.

I race duathlons and like it.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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marcus - i absolutely hear you.

same situation goes on in canada, and i've been very bent about it for ages. particularly this summer when a french pro was staying with me for a while - his descriptions of the european club system absolutely broke my heart.

i'm with the U of A triathlon club (www.ualberta.ca/~tri) and used to be with university of toronto and melbourne university. canada's also got a collegiate champs - a very well-run draft-legal olympic-distance race, but that's just tacked onto an existing even by an accomodating race director in montreal.

still, i dream of the fun, competition, and camaraderie that a healthy collegiate system would create. but there's definitely a confusion with the junior, junior elite, and u-23 programs, and little help in putting races together. our club offered to put on an olympic-distance tri and had to beg and grovel for everything we got, even though we were the provincial uni champs! and we went into debt doing it!

a sad state of affairs, for sure - it's definitely inspired me to get more involved on the policy and club end, that's for sure. for a success story, see the U of T mountain bike team. they've created a club from scratch, got other universities around to build teams, created a race series, points standings, etc etc. it's now a full-on sport with tight competition, even though it's not 'varsity'. i raced with them for two years and it was great - also made tri look very anemic by comparison.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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I had a great time at montreal, think of the camaraderie we developed standing around in the rain, with water running over our shoes discussing how little we like to race!
Anyhow, to back you up I totally agree. I go to Queens in Canada and we have a very large club and a wide variety of fun races during the winter. On the provincial level its all done by volunteers who organize the races and I believe they'res a mandate to keep fees reasonable which I think is great. However, I would like to see a little more support on the national level, but I also understand how hard it is too do, funding is so hard to come by. I know guys who were racing ITU stuff, and doing well who were all self funded, and as these guys are the future of triathlon in Canada they should be getting at least some money.

- David
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Marcus-

I hear ya and know exactly the frustration you are going through. For two years I was the president of the Univerity of Texas Triathlon club http://www.texastri.com/

In that time I and the succeeding president managed to find the team a coach, bring in a few speakers and get attendance at meetings up to around 20 and also have nights out where we all hung together, also some mid level integration with the cycling team (which is very well organized and has there own well run conference). Sadly, when I left, and then eventually my successor, the team sort of drifted away. To the best of my knowledge i do not know if they still meet. Granted at no time was this a "competitive" club. It simply acted as a forum where begginers could come together and get to know the sport. I was always so worried that my own endeavours in the sport were what kept people away. As for hoping to get something out USAT... I have to agree with Chris... screw it. Go it alone... go grass roots. We tried with limited success here in Texas (UT, Texas State, University of Houston, Texas A&M) to form something but the barriers to participation were just too high. I mean come on... finding everyone on our team a bike was a bigger concern for us then doing races. I just wanted members to be able to have the chance to experience multi-sport let alone compete in it. Travel and entry fees are just simply too high. Something has to be done and I think that something is simply more than one or two very motivated volunteers can do. USAT is a sad beaurocratic nightmare. Just another example of Govt run vs. Free Market run (WTC/IMNA).

Good luck with all your efforts and please feel free to PM at any time regarding this issue.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Dude, figure out how to make some money as the grand-pubah of collegiate tri and you got yourself a sweet post-college job.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like ZERO ground has been made since my experience with The Citadel cycling and triathlon clubs in the mid-1990s.

It seems to me that the college program would be an excellent way to work the Oly tri program. If college tri were to grow we might start attracting more of the uber-swimmers that folks like Lew K say are usually the genisis of the Oly triathletes.

I'm interested to hear Slowman's and Lew's take on this...
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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I understand exactly what you are talking about marcus. I help run the cycling club here at UW milwaukee and the conference, races and teams all seem to be set when i started. It was nice to have something like that to fall into.

I think there are a few things that could be done to help progress collegiate triathlon if there are enough people willing to do it:

1. Get a race calander set up for events leading up to a regional championship, then the existing national championship.

2. I do believe that the races leading up to the regional race could easily be, a combination of or all, existing triathons with a collegiate rankings\awards, or
actual collegiate races (indoor if the climate doesnt permit for a certain time)

3. The usat must recognize the ranking system in place for all regional events and help produce an up to date list every month or so.

So all in all, if enough colleges with a club put on a race or at least get together to dicuss regions and a regional race, then i think it could be done, and bragging rights would be easily handed out to the winners of the new regional\national champs.


I dont mean to hijack the thread, but i think it would be helpful if any collegiate club officers or members could post their school\website and we could mak e a hypothetical regions of the US collegiate triathlon national ranking system:-)
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [aus_tri] [ In reply to ]
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Started grad school at Texas this semester, and the club is indeed hanging by a thread. It blows my mind that the third largest school in the country, in a triathlon crazy town like Austin, has such a disorganized club. I did my undergrad work at Purdue, and the triathlon club was my lifestyle there. It's been really hard for me to adjust to being the only person who shows up to workouts or meetings. I

As to USAT and Collegiate Triathlon: I've given up on USAT. They don't understand who pays their bills... Age Group triathletes. All they seem to care about is finding the next ITU style racer for the Olympics. Just click on the collegiate link on USAT's website

http://www.usatriathlon.com/...ment/Collegiates.htm

It's a page about Youth / Junior / U23 recruitment. The word college is only mentioned in page header. USAT's one contribution to college triathlon 'Collegiate Nationals' isn't even on there.

USAT ignores the collegiate commission that was set up to develope multisport racing at the college level. They drag their feet with collegiate nationals and end up settling for sub-standard races. And they will pass the buck when it comes to any type of regional series developement.

The only way USAT will help develope college triathlon is if we turn it into an ITU racing recruiting ground. Which I think is a horrible idea. It would completely change what's fun about being a college triathlete and would discourage many people from getting into the sport.

Want to complain; Scott Schnitzspahn (scott@usatriathlon.com) is the USAT athlete developement coordinator and supposed to be incharge of college racing. But I think part of the problem is that there isn't someone who is just incharge of college racing on the USAT board.

By the way 2006 collegaite nationals was supposed to be in New Orleans. Anyone know if that is still going to happen?

Scott Walker

"Triathlon" is a misspell according to the Slowtwitch spell checker.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [ScottW] [ In reply to ]
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New orleans???I thought it was going to happen again in arizona??

http://www.tucsonracing.com/LHTinf06.htm
Info- Havasu Triathlon
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [uwmswimr] [ In reply to ]
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yeah,

my hope here in alberta was to just approach the guy who runs one of the big summer multisport series and ask if he'd consider adding a 'varsity' division. really, just tack another 'age group' onto existing races, and you can race for that school if you were there in the spring or going there in the fall.

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [uwmswimr] [ In reply to ]
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Uwmswimr you really had me worried there for a minute. Fortunately, the Tucson Racing site you linked makes no mention of being the 06 Collegiate Nationals. It's just another race. Nationals is suppossed to move around the country every year or two so that teams in one part of the country aren't given any advantage. The race got bogged down in Arizona for three years after Memphis couldn't do its second for some reason.

I'll be having snowball fights in Hell before I do another race put on by Tucson Racing and Jonathan Grinder. Nationals was screwed up three years in a row by nothing short of total incompetance and lack of personal responsibility on their part. And as far as I can tell USAT doesn't repremand them in way for for ruining a National Championship event.

Alot of age groupers were pissed off when Age Group Nationals was cancelled due to weather. I wonder what the uproar would have been like if the instead of bad weather they had completely screwed up the results, given out awards to all the wrong people, and then made little to no effort to fix anything. Because that's exactly what happened at Collegiate Nationals this year. Purdue is still waiting for its damn trophy!

Scott Walker

"Triathlon" is a misspell according to the Slowtwitch spell checker.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [ScottW] [ In reply to ]
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Oh man, that sucks. Whats the plan then for this year if new orleans is out due to the hurricane?
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [uwmswimr] [ In reply to ]
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I've been in touch with Jeff Dyrek at USAT and he has promised a location and date for Collegiate Nationals by the end of October (*COUGH* only a few days left USAT!). It will not be in New Orleans or Lake Havasu however. Possible sites are Atlanta (my hometown, hell yes!) and Baltimore.

Onto the main post:

The team here at Michigan State (www.msutriathlon.com) is big in numbers and very well organized. The network between colleges is also starting to span the country. Marcus should be familiar with Matt Miller who was/is Aaron Scheidies (an MSU alum and tri team founding father) guide for the CDifferent Team. We're presently building a CDifferent Team of our own here in East Lansing.

I guess the ultimate goal for the collegiate ranks is a cohesive network of administrators, race directors, collegiate team officers, and athletes. We've got 2 of the 4 thus far, but Marcus is completely correct that in order for our sport to take the next step we need an organization that pays people to administer and coordinate events, scoring, and scheduling. Students can only dedicate so much free time before it interfers with school work, and then the time consuming tasks of running a national network never get finished.

I am curious if a big name RD, like Tom Ziebart, would be willing to help a group of ex-collegiates form an NCAA-esque entity that is powered by their own sponsors (like the hundreds of potential sponsors USAT leaves out in the cold) and could potentially receive sanctioning from major university systems. This very thing is done in water polo, rugby, and many other "club" sports by the NCAA, so why not for triathlon?

And for the naysayers, the number of collegiate athletes is definitely large enough to accomplish such a lofty mission. Now only to find the people to do this... because I'm busy writing a thesis.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [astrotri] [ In reply to ]
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Atlanta was were I thought the race should be held before USAT crammed New Orleans down our throats. Baltimore seems like it might be a bit too cold if the race is still going to be held in mid-April. I've also heard Clairmont, FL. tossed around. At 500+ participants there shouldn't be a problem finding a race director to put on the event.

It looks like most of us agree that if collegiate triathlon is going to develope it will need a dedicated director to over see everything and that person will be working mostly outside of USAT.

Scott

"Triathlon" is a misspell according to the Slowtwitch spell checker.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [ScottW] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Started grad school at Texas this semester, and the club is indeed hanging by a thread. It blows my mind that the third largest school in the country, in a triathlon crazy town like Austin, has such a disorganized club. I did my undergrad work at Purdue, and the triathlon club was my lifestyle there. It's been really hard for me to adjust to being the only person who shows up to workouts or meetings.

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [marcusgeorge] [ In reply to ]
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I have someone would may be willing to help organize this and keep on it full time. I think this is great idea. Coming from a collegiate triathlon experience myself, I share your frustrations and enthusiasm about what could be.

Everyone keep posting their emails or just send them to nhobbs@etcemail.com so that I can start a list unless someone else wants to take charge. We can go from there.


Nik

NIK
www.athletelife.org
Last edited by: nhobbs: Oct 26, 05 9:02
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [nhobbs] [ In reply to ]
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [nhobbs] [ In reply to ]
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In this particular situation, I suggest putting the cart in front of the horse and letting the horse chase it down.

Meaning: let neighboring triathlon clubs put together a race schedule (basically a set of equidistant races which we all agree to attend) and then figure out the details later.

I can easily see this working for the coming season here in the Great Lakes area. We have these clubs available to compete:
- Michigan State
- U of Wisco Madison
- U of Wisco LaCrosse
- Michigan
- Iowa
- Purdue
- Iowa State
- Illinois
- Southen Illinois
- Illinois State
- Grand Valley State
- Ohio U
- Ohio State
- Miami U
- Indiana U

If we can agree on like 5-6 races then we're set. Each state (IA, IL, IN, MI, OH, WI) gets to suggest 2-3 primetime races of which one is agreed upon by everyone and viola, race schedule.

Then we can worry about getting race directors at those races to give us discounted entry fees (because we did just double the number of entrants simply by picking their race) and setting up a collegiate division with its own timing and scoring.

Seems feasible.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [astrotri] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be very surprised to hear that it would be here in Baltimore.
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Re: USAT, Future of the Sport, and Collegiate Triathlon [Kevin in MD] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent post astrotri, I think that the midwest region is set than and all we need are for the other areas to find out who could be in their conference. (I think that leaves northeast, southwest, southeast..am i missing anywhere). Il pm you astrotri and we should email the clubs and let them know the idea. Maybe after we get all this together we could submit it to a governing body so that it sticks for the future when were all done with college.

After the conferences are set then the whole regional identifying races should be set and a regional championship should be set.(this is a big undertaking obviuosly)
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