Clear cut? No.

But I like my Conti Comps. I'll probably get a fresh pair of those again this year.

I'm using the zipp tubs on my zipps. Very nice, and it seems that zipp has done a lot of good things to optimize these tires for use with their wheels. Search for some of the posts made by joshatzipp.

-Colin

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

More then a minute slower. I think your getting caught up in all the TUFO bashing. I like the zipp tires along with the zipps.

I just did a time trial on Vittoria Corsa EVO somethings that are smooth tread. I thought they were very nice.

   

Even a badly worn cassette won't reduce speed that much. Skewers make no difference whatsoever.

As far as the tires go....without perfectly windless conditions and a powermeter, you really can't tell for sure if it's the tires or not. To give you an example: before I had a powermeter, I tested some Mtb tires and became convinced that one set was much faster than another. After testing with a powermeter, I realized the real issue -- I was going faster with the one set because they had a larger circumference which was giving me effectively larger gears and inducing me to generate more power.

That being said, I know of 5 different individuals who have tested Tufo tires with powermeters and every one of them has the Tufos being significantly slower than clinchers and/or other tubulars. I have yet to see a post where someone says "I switched to Tufos and got faster"!



-Jens

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

hm... I switched and got faster. But they were the tubular-clinchers.

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Increasing awareness for suffers of DGS (Diminished Gluteal Syndrome).

I have Cane Creek tubs and Schwalbe Stelvio tires and I always seem to be a touch faster with the Ritchey's and crappy clinchers. I am wondering if it is the Tufo tape I used rather than the tires.

I had the same experience last year. I bought new 404's with Tufo S3's and expected to be faster on my personal TT route. I wasn't and attributed it to over hype of the wheels. After reading the recent Tufo postings I changed to Conti Competitions and rode the route for the first time on them last night. The conditions were excellent so that accounted for some of it but I still posted my best time out of 19 runs (2 on Tufos, 17 on training wheels/tires). My effort was actually less than many of the earlier runs.

I hate to think that I spent $1200 or whatever on wheels last year and actually got slower. At least we may have figured it out now.

I'm also going with the tubular clinchers but I'm not quite sold if they are any faster (or slower) then a good high performance clincher. The thing I do like about them is the fact that you can ride them flat if needed.

Dave in VA

I've used the tubular clinchers in cross races and rolled them off when they were *not* flat. YMMV.

you might want to ask this guy, I think he knows a thing or two about racing on Tufo's

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

I had the same experience with Zipp 303's and Tufo tubulars. They were just plain slower than my training wheels (Velocity) with Michelin Ironman tires. This year I moved up to a new bike with 700c wheels and had my first race Sunday on my new Zipp 606's (2006 edition) with Vredstein Fortezza Pro's. These wheels are DEFINITELY faster than my training wheels (Krysirium Elite), no doubt. I also don't know if it was the wheels, tires, bike, or rider, but this new combination is sweet. The bike is a Guru Aero-ti and I'm wild about it. Much, much better than the Kestrel KM-40 I had before.[url][code]

Imagine how fast he would be on Vittorias...

[reply]I just did a time trial on Vittoria Corsa EVO somethings that are smooth tread. I thought they were very nice.[/reply]
I have read people on bike forums say Vittoria have very low rolling resistance, but they only last very short because the rubber is too soft. The soft rubber is probably what makes Vittoria roll fast, but the short durability makes them a bad choice for training tires. Many dislikes Vittoria because of the short life.

[reply]I'm using the zipp tubs on my zipps. Very nice, and it seems that zipp has done a lot of good things to optimize these tires for use with their wheels. Search for some of the posts made by joshatzipp.

-Colin[/reply]
Isn't Zipp wheels just rebadged wheels from another tire manufacturer?

...and if he wasn't sitting bolt upright. Scary.

They used to be just Tufos but in another thread the Zipp guys says they now buy from some factory where a bunch of other manufacturers buy from but not Tufo anymore IIRC.

Yeah, noticed that. Very rare that a triathlete's bike position matches his run form... :)

I think it is just a matter of selecting the right Vittoria for the job. You don't necessarily put on the Vittoria EVO Corsa tires for training. You'd be better served to run their Diamante Pros or Rubino Pros. Both sport a less soft tread compound and also lower thread count casings than the Corsa or Open Corsa tires. The soft rubber may play less of a role in lower rolling resistance than the tire casing itself. The higher thread count casings should yield lower rolling resistance, but you will pay a price in reduced durability over tires with a lower thread count casing. I'd suspect that alot of the reason for the softer rubber compound is for traction purposes first, any positive impact on rolling resistance second.

One big plus that Vittoria offers is a much broader selection of both tire models and tread patterns for you to choose from. You can't label all Vittoria tires based on performance experienced from a single model.

[reply]You can't label all Vittoria tires based on performance experienced from a single model.[/reply]
It wasn't based on experince with a single model, but on Vittoria tires in general.
It wasn't my personal experience, but what I have read on a bike forum.

Last year, I rode Contis with tufo tape. My bike times were about 1-2 mph slower than the previous year on the same courses. This year I switched to glue, with Vittoria Corsas on the race wheels and Rubino Pros on the trainers. I haven't raced yet but I noticed that I'm going faster on the training wheels. Could it be the tape?

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Quote, "Skewers make no difference whatsoever."



MPB1950,

This statement is not entirely true.

When a skewer is closed in a dropout, it "loads" the bearing in the hub. If the bearings are not adjusted properly for that "loading", then this "loading" of the bearing can cause considerable drag.

Now normally one would expect that new wheels from the factory (never been used) would have bearings that were properly adjusted but that may not be 100% true in all cases or perhaps your Zipp 404 were picked up used and are only new to you?

You can check if this is the source of your problem (slower time) by lifting your bike up and spinning your wheels to see if they spin freely and how long they keep turning or how fast they slow down after you let go of them. If they don;t appear to slow down prematurely, then perhaps it is a case of Tufo tubulars on Zipp wheels being significantly slower than the other tires and wheels you were using previously. Or it could be another bearing issue.

Are your bearings greased or are they running dry? This can be determined for the most part by removing the skewer and gripping the axle and turning it gently to determine if it feels smooth and silky/buttery (greased) or if it feels "gritty" or dry (no grease).

After both of these bearing issues have been ruled out, then it begins to look more and more like the tires and wheels would be the only things that are different unless it is your own fitness level. Were you more rested on your previous effort on your "old" wheels and tires? Are you comparing last year's effort on your old wheels to this year's effort on the Zipp/Tufo combination? Were the conditions less favorable when you rode the Zipp/Tufo combination than when you rode your "older" wheels/tires?

If one test is conducted immediately after another, then there is the issue of adequate recovery from the first effort and if there was not adequate recovery, then the second effort could have been affected more by the first effort than by the change in wheel/tire combination.

All these factors have relevance to answering your questions. There are many factors which enter into affecting the outcome of experiments or tests of this kind comparing one set of components to another set of components and trying to maintain similar conditions for different efforts at different times.

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

Agreed. The point I was trying to make was that brand x skewer isn't going to make you faster than brand y, so long as you tighten them the same. There are some who think ti skewers will make them faster.



-- Jens

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My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

hi jens,

you've surely read the thread at biketechreview about modifying skewers to minimize Fa/drag... who cares if they are ti or lead, as long as they are invisible to the wind.