hisssssssssssssssss cat fight!


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"they dislike all the people who enter races just to finish the race, rather than to RACE the race"

Realize that that there are elites and elitists. There is a BIG difference.

Many years back, on our first ever tri, which was a total disaster, wife and I had the good fortune to sit down at refreshment/lunch and talk with a guy who had won his AG at IMLP and finished 2nd OA that day at the local sprint. We didn't realize who he was, just a guy sitting next to us, and he never once let on. He asked us how it went and as we talked he gave us a ton of advice and suggestions/resources without ever once mentioning who he was. Real nice guy, modest and genuinely into helping and encouraging newbies. It wasn't until later that we realized who he was. The guy is a class act.

Realize that triathlon is just a cross section of society. There will always be A-holes, but my experience is that is not the norm.

Hey! Don't mess with Cathy.

And you missed her point entirely.

Indeed, you really missed the point.

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Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

"Indeed, you really missed the point. "

OK. What point did the original poster miss in your view?

I realize you weren't meaning to call anyone out by name, but when you quote someone exactly on a forum where you can search posts for exact phrases....

And I don't think that her opinion or yours or mine on 'process' are really relevant. Races go on, people will have opinions, the world continues to turn.

Just race happy.

an interesting post, maybe even some good points.

but the tricky thing is when using the word hypocrisy, is that immediately people will try to see if you walk the talk.

and most of us, being fallible, do not.

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Where would you want to swim ?

I agree people have opinions. What angers me, is that this person is a big personality on this forum. She is buddy buddy with Dan, and others. So I feel that she should have a little more tact and be more careful when make such elitist posts, as she did. Especially, when I find her own performance and choice of races as evidenced by her own words to be more in line with those who are just finishing and not racing. That is the hypocrisy she goes out of her way to lambaste and pretty much denigrate those out who are just finishing the race, when she herself in the eyes of many is precisely that type of athlete.

I freely admit that I am not fast, but I don't have to race an event to track someone down the chute so that my Ironman marathon is 5:00 as opposed to 5:01. Give me a break. I just go out and do my own race, the time is what the time is. If I did better than before but finish second to last that is good enough for me, because I know I am improving and doing as well as I could.

Furthermore, it pisses me off, because IMO people like the Hypocrite (who have such a big personality and access to important people on this forum and the sport of triathlon) should embrace newbies, guys and girls who just finish as well as the super fast guys who she seems to hang out with like Sergio and Bjorn.

I think you missed the following sentence from her post: "Or want to change races to fit their specific strength."
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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
USAT Certified Coach
Precision Nutrition Certified

Here is the full quote, which IMO is just as bad as the excerpt I posted:

"I just find it amusing that people who haven't done a particular race want to change it (and not just the 101 series). Or want to change races to fit their specific strength. But hey--feel free to start up your own race. As Greg termed it, "pussyfying" things seems to be driving more and more long time triathletes to other events and sports. The way it's going pretty soon all triathlon races will be feel good tours instead of athletic competitons. I sure hope not. And in case you've forgotten, the original Ironman was based on three separate events, hence the distances. If they'd been sitting in the bar worrying about making it "fair", we'd all be playing tiddlywinks today."

Even the full paragraph is just as elitest. Not a very embracing viewpoint of the sport as a whole or people who are doing it.
I am all for making races more accessible. Having people start in a shorter more "fair" distance can help grow the sport as once they do one shorter race and just finish they can then as many people do build to longer and more traditional distances such as IM, etc.

I’m not sure what your point is. She is saying leave things along and people should stop trying to game the system – no more, no less. I don’t find it elitist either. I am headed to SF on Monday and will be on the Embarcadero for a negative split run around six. If I see her, I will ask her (like that is going to happen) - but I think you are off base in this instance. And no, I don't know her.
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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
USAT Certified Coach
Precision Nutrition Certified

I read that as pretty snobbish/elitist also. But who cares? people like that can live in their little worlds. Wow she is a 'personality' on some internet forum? big deal

IMO there are races which are more suitable for those "just trying to finish".

For example... there is a sprint around here that is organized by a church (i think). It's called Angels Race. The bike course is very very hilly and scenic but its an overall fun course. One of the big things was "racing for your angel" (i.e. somebody special in your life or whatever). There was a prayer before the race and it was a very feel good race. Not really my taste. I don't do tri's for that feel good aspect, but some people do. And what is so bad about that? There is nothing more inspiring than to see somebody cross the finish line who is doing it for those feel good reasons. Especially if their family is waiting for them or they're racing for a charity. If the OP is so worried about these people then why not stay away from the races that attract them? They will always be there, but more so at some races than others. Maybe she can sign up and race with Norman or Macca. haha. I don't know how many feel gooders will be out there with them.

I think it's a little to easy to stick your nose up in this sport, especially with all of the expensive bike gear out there and the extensive training that's required to be successful. But the most important thing to remember is that at one point we were all riding that bike that was the wrong size (and really heavy), struggling with running and sinking in a pool. And if it wasn't for that one race that was a little bit more welcoming than the next, a lot of us wouldn't be here.

I don't want to trash the OP or anything, I just wanted to put my opinion into the mix.

P.S. - I'm sorry for bringing Macca into the discussion.

I read that paragraph and I don't see anything elitist about it, I just see somebody who's tired of hearing people whine about wanting to change the individual event distances. At no point does she insult people who do the races to finish or race for a good cause - you either inferred this from a different post or made it up entirely.

Personally, I agree with what she wrote. There has been a lot of chat on the board lately about a so-called "balanced" triathlon - which is fine, hypotheticals are great topics for message boards. The reality is, though, that the distances are what they are, and they're not going to change for those few people who feel it doesn't suit them, so those people need to accept that and train accordingly. If they really dislike it that much, why are they racing tris? Go do a single-sport event where you can swim, bike, or run to your heart's content. Triathlon is supposed to be FUN, and most of us are doing it for recreation, so it strikes me as rather ironic that people would get so worked up worrying about things like event distances.

I am taking the totality of her statements in that thread and others to inform my opinion on the elitist spirit she espouses. Even in the paragraph I quoted, I don't see what part of the words "pussifying," "playing tiddlywinks," "feel good tours," or the rest of her comments about her definition of what it means to compete or race (from posts that I didn't quote) doesn't come off as elitist and egotistical.

It seems rather ridiculous to say any distance is "pussifying" the sport. For instance is a 100m dash or 1 mile run in track and field pussifying the sport because it isn't a marathon? Is the 50m free in swimming pussifying the sport because it isn't a 5km open water swim? Ironman distances are just as arbitrary as any distances. Just because a race is shorter than IM doesn't mean its pussifying the sport, to win those sprint races requires a lot of athletic talent and training more so than many members who just go out and do an IM (such as the Hypocrite). Even then for this sprints, who cares if people just go out to finish the race and have a feel good time doing it.

I recognize that the the original comments were made in response to some suggestions to have a different distance than the 101 series. However, wouldn't the flawed logic of the Hypocrites argument make the 101 series just a "pussified," "feel good tour" version of an Ironman. The 101 distance is just as arbitrary as any distance as any other race.

Furthermore, I don't think people are getting worked up about doing or not doing certain distances. I believe people's suggestions for alternate distances was a suggestion to create a race that would appeal to more people than the 101 series seemed to be appealing to. There was and is some talk that the 101 series missed its mark and market when choosing its arbitrary distance of 101 miles. Thus, the suggestions that perhaps a different set of distances would be better at attracting triathletes whether new to the sport or long time participants.

It's not elitist, it's just honest. We're so used to being politically correct and not stepping on people's toes that any statement that isn't sugarcoated to protect everyone else's feelings gets labelled as elitist and whoever said it must be a hateful, self-centered jerk. Give me a break.

Triathlon is not supposed to be an easy sport, and that is what she is posting about here. The actual basis of triathlon was to determine which of the three sports is the hardest. If you are so offended because somebody said a few words that make you feel uncomfortable on an internet message board, I don't know how you make it through each day. Either that or you're just trying to stir up trouble, which wouldn't surprise me.

Hey that's an awesome post,does that mean I can stop being so politically correct now and start calling 14hr Ironman finishers slow bastards like we used to be able to back in the good old days? ;)

Yes, I would highly recommend it.

You guys joke. However, that is precisely my point about the hypocrisy. I don't feel that someone who is a 14+ hour (close to 15 hour) IM finisher should be casting stones regarding other people who just want to do a race to finish it. Nor should they get all up in arms about suggestions of other distances. or call it pussifying the sport or cast negative comments about feel good tours. Especially, when some people realistically would find her times as just doing an Ironman as part of a feel good tour. Even though, I am sure that those who take 17h or those who take 9 hours are just as taxed mentally and physically after the even. Hence the hypocrisy.

The added hypocrisy is that this person is supposed to be a supporter of the sport yet isn't open to suggestions of others for distances that may bring in more people to the sport, and posts comments that aren't embracing of people who just go out to participate and finish a triathlon regardless of the distance.

>>I just see somebody who's tired of hearing people whine about wanting to change the individual event distances.<<

Someone who actually got it! And the context was in the backhanded slamming of the Tri101 series by people who weren't even at the races (see follow-up in Cousin Elwood's thread). The basic thought process by most (not all) seems to be IRONMAN good; 101 bad and wanna be IRONMAN, but instead, a x swim-y bike and z run is perfect (fit xyz to your own specific strengths). Lets try to bury something new and different before it even has a chance. Seems to be the way around here.

iron3fit, you obviously know nothing about me and you seem a little fixated for some reason. Not exactly sure why and I don't have time to worry about it, but feel free to spend your Saturday slamming me if it makes you feel better. I'll be off leading a long ride for a group of gals, most of whom are training for their first half IM. And I won't tell the newbies that I coach on Thursday mornings that their reasons for training for the races that they are training for suck. Or the beginner tri training group that volunteer for each spring and fall.

Must have been a slow Friday night. Sorry I missed it. Though the San Francisco ACT production of Moilere's "The Imaginary Invalid" is excellent and highly recommended.

And note to CooterBob: I'm very sorry that I will be on my way to Silicon Valley Monday! If not, I'd be out there on the Embarcadero looking for you.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

[reply]
It's not elitist, it's just honest. [/reply]

Honest and Hypocritical, just as the OP correctly stated and titled this thread.

You are right I know nothing about you other than the insensitive and hypocritical remarks that you post on this forum. Perhaps you are a nice person in "real life." You of all people should have the decency and courtesy to be an ambassador of the sport and not an elitist "go long (and RACE the event), or your not really a triathlete" mentality.

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Hey that's an awesome post,does that mean I can stop being so politically correct now and start calling 14hr Ironman finishers slow bastards like we used to be able to back in the good old days? ;)[/reply]

No. No. No. Not nice to call people slow bastards. I represent that remark.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev