Triathletes in bike races

Feb 1, 05 9:20

Post #1 of 43 (5012 views)

I'm doing a semi-full season of bike racing this spring and the first was this weekend. It was my second ever(1st was about a year ago).

We get into a bunch of roadie/triathlete discussions around here and I found it interesting that, at least in my race, the triathletes were the strongest and most savvy riders there.

The only team that showed any solid team tactics was the UCSB Triathlon team. Twice they got a group of their riders towards the front and slowed the tempo and/or blocked the field while their two strong riders escaped, both times it was me and another triathlete(from the Cal Poly tri team) who were the only ones to chase and join them. They controlled the race, were prominently represented in every break, and finished in 2nd and 3rd overall.

In the end, the top 4 places were all triathletes. We all finished well clear of the field. I finished 4th after being dropped on the final climb :( I just couldn't recover after spending a half mile bridging the gap and TT'd the final 4 miles solo.

Both the UCSB tri and cycling teams were well represented in the 50 man field but the tri team destroyed the cycling team.

Ok, so one of the guys did have on a sleeveless tri-top with armwarmers(isn't that illegal?)

My girlfriend, another triathlete, finished 4th of 17 in the womens Cat 3/4 race and probably could have won if it hadn't been her 1st race and she'd had a better idea of what to expect.

Anyway, I highly recommend bike racing. Most triathletes I talk to are intimidated by the idea, but a little specific training and I think many triathletes would do fine. Plus, it's great fun.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 9:31

Post #2 of 43 (4974 views)

I agree with you. I wish there weren't the distinctions between "roadie" and "triathlete" though. Any time people make distinctions it leads to problems.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Re: Triathletes in bike races [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 9:47

Post #3 of 43 (4922 views)

Agreed. As one who changed from being a mediocre age-grouper to a mediocre road racer (I HATE running...And swimming), all tri-people really need to do is repress their instinct for self preservation a little more and cultivate some patience and they should do fine at the local/regional level.

Oh, and try to ease up on the brakes.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 10:19

Post #4 of 43 (4841 views)

Were you racing the 5's race? I don't believe that 5's, especially at the beginning of the season, are very tactically aware bike racers. Most of the people in that category are also doing their first few races, and probably not highly trained (<10 hrs/week of riding). I doubt that these riders would fare so well in a 3/4's race, where they would be racing with riders of equal or greater fitness and almost definitely better anaerobic fitness (i.e. - sprinting and climbing). Triathletes would definitely benefit from a bit more bike racing, though.

Increasing awareness for suffers of DGS (Diminished Gluteal Syndrome).

Re: Triathletes in bike races [UCSD racer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 10:32

Post #5 of 43 (4798 views)

In the early season the college guys have the upper hand. There season has already started, and they are less than 4 months away from Nationals. Most of us (tri/cyclists) start seriously racing after the NCAA season is over.

I try to get my tri buddies to do bike races. Good experience and cheap racing. Plus they might learn how to go around a corner at a reasonable speed.

Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)

"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman

Re: Triathletes in bike races [UCSD racer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 10:34

Post #6 of 43 (4783 views)

Another good point. I remember the year I first did the state championship road race out here (undisclosed location). The course had a couple of hills on it that looked like walls and seemed to go on forever. To make matters worse, all that 'ride your own pace' thing went out the window real quick. You either stayed with the field...or else.

I had not suffered like that, as a tri-geek, on a bike ever before. I was hooked. Cause it's all about seeing how much suffering you can take...And then(only then) seeing what you can get away with dishing out.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [M.E.T.] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 10:43

Post #7 of 43 (4747 views)

My experience is actually just the opposite. I got out of bike racing and into triathlons because of the suffer factor. I was tired of the bike races where the prevailing wisdom is to "sit in" and save yourself for the final 500 meters of the race. I would usually spend my time yo-yoing off the back of the pack, because I'm not very pack-savvy, but I was stronger than most of the cat 4s I was racing, so I could always catch up on my own. I could just never get it together enough to get off the front. So I changed to triathlons because it's all about you and how fast YOU can go. I hate drafting and I am MUCH happier with tris than with road racing.

-C

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:03

Post #8 of 43 (4680 views)

I met a former CAT 1 biker last weekend and he gave me a whole new perspective on cycling... I no longer feel guilty about owning only 3 bikes (he has 75 bikes distributed around the world). He related a great story about being in a draft illegal tri (he was the bike relay member and is still in good shape at about 40) with some guys who were desperately sucking on his wheel. Despite his urgent "reminders" that they needn't be getting a free ride, they persisted. Until, of course, he (on a road bike) took a nice 90 deg turn at the bottom of a hill (European race) at about 30 mph. All 5 of the draft pack ended up in the ditch. Oh too bad for them!!!

FIST Certified Fitter
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Triathletes in bike races [ssn759co] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:09

Post #9 of 43 (4650 views)

What? You felt guilty about owning three bikes? Raised Catholic? Or did I parse that sentence incorrectly?

I own three. I wish I had more, but space considerations dictate that I own no more. :(

Re: Triathletes in bike races [UCSD racer] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:15

Post #10 of 43 (4636 views)

It was the 5 race and I agree that the tri team wouldn't have gotten away with as much in a Cat 3 race as the field would have been more race savvy.

The 3 guys that finished ahead of me were strong, though. I ride with 1-4's all of the time and those 3 tri guys would have had no problems in a 3 race. I don't think Category is always a good indicator of strength, especially in the case of Cat 5's. There are some strong guys there who just haven't raced enough to upgrade. I know I'm as strong as most of the 3's and 4's on my squad.

The thing I don't like about the Cat 5 races is the length - way too short. There are a lot more people able to hang on for 35 miles than are able to hang on for 85.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [M.E.T.] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:20

Post #11 of 43 (4617 views)

Yeah, that and Methodist and then being jerked away from the Bay Area in 1969 to Salt Lake City Utah (circa 1933) -- very traumatic upbringing. So I am resolving my guilt through ST therapy and slowly coming to the understanding that it's not about the bike, it's about how many bikes you can store in your brandie new German basement workout room! Too bad I can't get people to pay the shipping to Germany from the U.S. on eBay otherwise I'd...

FIST Certified Fitter
Salt Lake City, Utah

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:24

Post #12 of 43 (4602 views)

Jaylew, I suspect that the top roadies in your area did not show up, or the top roadies in your area are lame. I've raced tris for 20 years, and the top cyclists in most areas that I visit are roadies, not triathletes. I've trained with road cyclists for years and they are always stronger than the top triathletes at bike racing. That being said, we are triathletes and besides a few exceptions are not that studly at cycling compared to real cyclists. Notable exceptions are guys like Dr. Matt Brick and 97 Du World Champ Jonathan Hall (we was recently second at a half Ironman in Oz after a bunch of years as a Euro bike pro) who both placed top 20 at UCI World's TT. Triathletes that get really good at cycling just become roadies (such as Lance, Chann McRae, Mary Holden)

Congrats on a great race though, but don't fool yourself, roadies can ride the pants off most triathletes!

Re: Triathletes in bike races [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:38

Post #13 of 43 (4564 views)

Well, the top roadies in my area are definitely NOT lame(I'm in Socal), but those guys certainly wouldn't have been in the Cat 5 race anyway ;)

Without a doubt, the average roadie is a stronger cyclist than the average triathlete. Never denied that. People just don't jump into bike racing the way they do triathlons. Triathlon is a much more beginner-friendly sport. Just saying that a fairly strong cycling triathlete can fare ok in a bike race if they do some specific training(with roadies).

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:43

Post #14 of 43 (4540 views)

Damn skippy. Did a bunch of crit racing last summer as a post-partum rebuild on my cycling base, did wonders for the lungs and legs. Heaps of fun. Lots of triathletes in this area, most do well enough in the lower ranks, but once in the higher categories, it's all roadies.

Next year, after IMWA (Nov) it will be all road racing with a few sprint tris for AndyPants.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 11:46

Post #15 of 43 (4531 views)

OK, I missed the Cat 5 part. Bike racing has many barriers to entry, from race licenses, to the "intimidation factor" , to the "attitude factor". Tris and run races are more all inclusive, which is the nicest part of them.

I don't see any Team in Training or Team Diabetes at any of the top local, regional or National bike events.

Good luck in your bike racing !

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 12:40

Post #16 of 43 (4440 views)

not terribly surprising that a group of experienced triathletes did well in a 5's race. i'm banking on the same phenomenon for a friend of mine this weekend. realistically, strong triatheletes should be able to do well in both the 4's and 5's provided that they have a decent sense of tactics (like not jumping after every break, etc...). where triatheletes should start to suffer is in the 3's where you would expect to see significant fluctuations in race intensity linked to tactically smart attacks and counterattacks. and it won't necessarily be the speed, it'll be the recovery and re-acceleration that will kill the tri-geek, for no other reason then that kind of training is not particularly useful to a triathlete.

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 13:24

Post #17 of 43 (4377 views)

When I raced bikes we used to call the 5's race the tri race because just about any racer with a license and a few races under his belt can upgrade to 4. That leaves nothing but unlicensed riders (triathletes) in the 5's.

______________
RickySilk | ricky's world

I don't mean to be rude, but.... [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 13:38

Post #18 of 43 (4335 views)

The barriers are there for a reason. I race at a higher level in cycling. I don't want anyone who wants to race to jump into my CAT, because of the saftey factor.

There is a big difference riding a mass start race and a tri. Most mass start stay together for a while. I don't like to ride with folks who freak out if you touch them. Someone who can't turn creates a problem in the pack, much like the old person driving 45pm in a 65mph zone. When you get pinched or hipped you have to learn not to react like someone stuck a hot poke up thy rump.

Pack racing is more dangerous than TT's. The average speed of a group is usually greater than that of an individual. Bike handling is more important, cuz there is always squirrley stuff happening and you have to know how to react in the pack not to "ef" others up.

Why don't you age groupers start tri's at the same time as the pro tri's start??? They don't want anyone to "ef" up their race. I'd love to se a mass start tri with no waves.

I race citizen races on occassion ans always go to the front to stay out of trouble. Lots of strong rec and tri riders show up. And yes they are fit. I can shed them at will by using roadie tricks make them work harder and harder until they blow. Or through a hip to "intimidate". It is bike racing!!!

As for attitude. "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones". "Come on now", both groups have those with attitudes. I've done tri relays and they ain't all that warm an fuzzy. Lots of egos and big boy toys there too, kids.

Re: I don't mean to be rude, but.... [stoots] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 13:48

Post #19 of 43 (4320 views)

Fair enough. I can see a valid set of technical reasons why you don't want every Joe riding in bike races. But realistically, there is no reason why you would not want to have all kinds of entry level folks doing TT's. They pose no threat to others and would only be out on the course to test themselves. Space them apart by 15 seconds and you can get 240 people out in an hour.

It seems like triathlon and running have been more open and welcoming of the "fitness crowd" than bike racing in general. The numbers speak for themselves. There is no reason why the numbers in you local TT should be any less than your local sprint tri, but usually, (at least in the areas I have sampled across North America), this is the case. You also won't get top pro cyclists just hangin out with your back of the pack guy at the post race awards. In cycling, there is a huge segregation of categories. In triathlon, the front and back of pack, get to mingle and socialize much more openly pre and post race :-)

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 14:07

Post #20 of 43 (4289 views)

By the way, some years ago, a group of pro triathletes/duathletes entered a team in the Redlands classic in the spring. If I recall, they had guys like Kenny Souza, Mike Pigg, Ritticello (sp ?) etc and finished in the middle of the pack, ahead of the Canadian National Cycling Team etc. Date was around mid 90's or so.

Re: I don't mean to be rude, but.... [stoots] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 14:19

Post #21 of 43 (4274 views)

In Reply To:

Quote:

Why don't you age groupers start tri's at the same time as the pro tri's start??? They don't want anyone to "ef" up their race. I'd love to se a mass start tri with no waves.

Have you ever heard of Ironman???

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 20:05

Post #22 of 43 (4165 views)

Jason, Congrats on the high finish. If I make it out to AZ before the race, you need to meet me out there if it doesn't conflict with your race schedule.

I have been thinking about doing some road racing too, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I don't even like watching someone's wheel on the shop ride, let alone when I am racing. However, I can see how it would be beneficial.

56-11...the only way to fly

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 20:31

Post #23 of 43 (4134 views)

"Train and race with roadies? But what if my heartrate doesn't remain in the right zone?" (said in a nerd voice) ;-)

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 20:33

Post #24 of 43 (4134 views)

I'm a current category 1 racer who still races (mostly 30+ races with category 1 and 2's), but switched over to half ironman and IMMOO last season, with a 4:43 and a 12 hr race under my belt in my first season. I agree with your post that training for all 3 sports makes you strong and capable of working over a category 5 race would be easy for most tri dorks, but eventually the running hampers the leg speed necessary for that burst that all bike races require. The early season races were easy for me with the strength and added hours, but those 13 and 15 mile runs have a way of killing your legs at the most crucial times--the push before the sprint, the surge of the crucial hilll, out of the beyond 90 degree corners in some crits. The one advantage was that swimming has a great calming affect on the legs as recovery.

I bike raced for 13 years and strongly encourage it as a great sport, but the last time I did a big-time pro race, it dawned on me that it was a sport for the young. I hope you have a great time with it, but it is hard to do both at a high level. Good luck!!!

Re: Triathletes in bike races [jaylew] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 05 22:02

Post #25 of 43 (4085 views)

Glad you had fun. Now get some racing under your belt and race the upper cats to see how bike racing really is.

No doubt tri guys have great work ethics and a ton of endurance. What I've found is that the tri guys just aren't there at the end. The flats can go fast and the hills will pick off a good share of riders but its the last miles to the line in a pack when the shit flys and this is where the tri guys simply don't spend enough time on their bikes to gain the speed endurance to hang onto the line.

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