Please keep me posted on how this effects your IM times.

It sounds like he's doing an approximation of the M2 training plan. Either way (M2 or traditional) can work, as long as you do them properly.

K

M2? Would this tend to be more effective with someone with a strong base, as D.W. appears to have?

I'm not an expert on it. Go to the Mike McCormack website (he's the developer of the system), and you'll be able to read up on it. Gotta admit, it makes sense, especially if you find yourself pressed for time to do lots of long distance training.

Gina Kehr is one of his athletes. She seems to do allright on it.

No worries. He's talking about getting more specific for that kind of race as well. The plan, when we get to that sort of race is to look at basically doing th e opposite to the gordo over distance/epic style thing (or what I understand of that style of training). I have some reservations, but I think these are mostly pschological type A type traits where I feel the need to do more and more and more.

The idea for ironman training, much as it is for half training, will be to do say three or four specific distance/intensity sessions per week, with the rest as recovery.

I dunno. As i said my best is 9:02. If I get to 8:59 I think I will retire and grow vegetables as a hooby instead! I find it hard to bring myself 'up' mentally to do a large proportion of sessions at uncomforatably high intensities, but I do have a lot of time left over to stare at my navel.

Why is that the M2 system??? Why do you say that he "developed" the system? Just curious...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I'm not a professional coach. But, I do have an opinion on long slow training and higher intensity training. I think the LSD is a great way for people that have the time to get loads of workload, not be so cooked that they can't recover adequately, and keep the risk of injury low (unless they get over-use injuries as opposed to injuries arising from more explosive movements as in high speed running).

However, you said you notice you are much more tired from your high speed training, even though you have much less time involved in your workout program. GREAT! This shows your body hasn't fully adapted to the higher speed, so, you have some training adaptation to go through in this area. Hang in there and get faster. Your body will gradually adapt, and you'll really be faster! I bet as long as you keep improving, your coach will keep your diet high in faster/shorter stuff. If you stop improving or start getting niggling injuries cropping up, I bet he'll move you to LSD again for a while.

I think you really do need BOTH to get your maximum potential expressed. Perhaps you've been heavy on the LSD end of the spectrum in the past? Now, it's time for faster stuff! Sounds like you have a good coach to me.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I think it's a great idea, and if you are feeling more tired/wiped out, why are you still questioning the benefits? As from the above reply, your body is going through an adaptation phase. It is used to going long, slow and steady, not short and intense. As your body adapts, you will not only feel even faster, but you will be less fatigued between intense workouts, and require less recovery. Recovery really is the key when it comes to intensity. When you do LSD, you are at a very maintainable intensity, and the body requires very little recovery time between efforts as there is very little glycogen depletion or muscle breakdown that needs repair. As you increase intensity, the body requires more time between efforts to repair the damage you incurred. Keep in mind that this is good damage. Every time you break down the body a bit, it adapts and re-builds itself stronger. The higher the intensity, the more recovery needed before the next round. I personally believe that Base and intensity are not mutually exclusive things. I'm currently coaching an athlete to a Boston Qualifier, she hasn't been doing much lately, but was an excellent athlete at a younger age. Very moldable. We start with 1 month of pure LSD, then move into a month of LSD with two intense efforts(80-85%RacePace) in the middle of the week. Then we do a month of LSD with three intense efforts(90-100%RacePace). These shorter runs at higher intensity will serve to bring up the level of the LSD runs. Its all about adaptation. The body is a very adaptable thing, you keep throwing the same stuff at it all the time, and it adapts and the training effect is lost. The body knows what's coming and is ready for it. I believe you need to keep switching it up every 4wks or so to keep the body in a constant state of adaptation. Never let it settle into a solid routine. To go back to an earlier post, you can build base and intensity at the same time if you do it smartly. In the end, the marathon will be run at a LSD heartrate, but the pace will be much higher than if we had just done LSD base training.

Just my opinion right now, and still tweaking it as we go along, and probably could have been written better, but that's all I've got before my second coffee this morning.

Ian

http://www.imfit.ca

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Ian MacLean
http://www.imfit.ca
Success comes when fear of failure goes

9:02 is an awesome IM PB. Congratulations.

If you have done that while doing 2 - 3 IM races a year, my suspicien is that you are using a reasonably high volume approach. Nothing wrong with that as it has yeilded some outstanding results. Generally speaking, I am in agreement with what you coach has suggested - take some time and focus on 1/2 IM and specifically faster paced training. The huge base that you have possibly developed will not go away. That will take years to erode.

I would cut back to a max of 2 or even one IM race a year and focus for a time on the 1/2 IM distance and setting absolute PB times for the 1/2 Marathon run distance and the 40K ITT. This will hopefully take you to the next level the next time you do an IM.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Some things mentioned above (and/or in other posts/articles, etc) have me slightly baffled.

When we talk about more intense training, the topic of injuries often comes up. Now, we're talking about running 6 min miles instead of say 8 min miles, or bike intervals at 28mph instead of 22mph. I don't see a greater risk of injury there. Where I DO see injury risk is from more volume rather than less -- repetitive use injuries, that is.

By the way, I would consider the original poster way FAST already (at least in the context of triathlon)!

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Aztec wrote: When we talk about more intense training, the topic of injuries often comes up. Now, we're talking about running 6 min miles instead of say 8 min miles, or bike intervals at 28mph instead of 22mph. I don't see a greater risk of injury there.

I agree. I think where the problem of injury lies is when people take the whole bottle of speed medicine, instead of just two tablets. Some people think speedwork means sprinting, and, for endurance athletes, it doesn't. As you mentioned, it means 6 minute mile intervals instead of 8, etc. Also, most people are just covering their rears when they say "...as long as you don't get injured." It seems to me the injured get so by doing one of several things: excessive distance, excessive speed, inadequate recovery, and accidents.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)