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Tire choice for chip seal road
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Just received a notice that a road that’s a main part of the bike course (14 mile) has just been chip sealed. Thinking Gatorskins may be appropriate. Is there an increased risk of flats on fresh chip and seal, or is it just a rough ride?
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn't have thought so. I've race IM New Zealand many times and most of the course is chip seal rough. I run racing tubs that have a latex tube with sealant and I'd be doing the same with clinchers. A Gatorskin is going to be slow. If you want a fast set up you want a wider supple tyre and run a lower pressure. Most flats I've had has been from glass, wire or the like so your risk of puncture shouldn't be that great IMO...
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Just a rough ride. I’d actually shy away from something like Gatorskins as I find they tend to be a little less comfortable in general. Not to mention slow rolling. When I’m riding on chipseal around here I find Specialized Turbo Cottons to be the most comfortable. But YMMV.

Matt
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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I remember one ride on chipseal where one guy in the group had Gatorskins. He was having a tough time staying comfortable, so he was keeping his wheels on the thin band of smooth concrete on the edge of the road. The problem is that the concrete band was filthy, covered in debris.

Everyone on supple racing tires was fine. The Gatorskins dude got a puncture.
Last edited by: HTupolev: Aug 6, 19 21:13
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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It depends on how recently the road was sealed, and how well it was swept. Part of my regular route was chip sealed last year, and I made the mistake of riding it shortly after the first sweep. There were a lot of loose chips pinging off my wheels and going flying. I avoided that section for a few weeks until it had been swept again (after which it was fine).
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t think they are warranted; I ride these types of roads in Texas all the time with GP 4000sii with no major issues other than the typical discomfort associated with them. 14 miles isn’t too long...probably just consider 25mm with slightly less PSI
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
Just received a notice that a road that’s a main part of the bike course (14 mile) has just been chip sealed. Thinking Gatorskins may be appropriate. Is there an increased risk of flats on fresh chip and seal, or is it just a rough ride?
Gatorskins are never appropriate! ;)

Seriously, I ride GP4000sII year round. A lot of the roads I ride are poor and one or other part of my routes regularly include chip and seal sections over the past few years. I average about 1 puncture per year and have never gotten one on chip seal. Probably no need to change tyres, but if you were to do so, I'd stick with something soft and wide rather than a hard, slow Gatorskin.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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mike_w wrote:
It depends on how recently the road was sealed, and how well it was swept. Part of my regular route was chip sealed last year, and I made the mistake of riding it shortly after the first sweep. There were a lot of loose chips pinging off my wheels and going flying. I avoided that section for a few weeks until it had been swept again (after which it was fine).

What this guy experienced happened to me too. Fresh chip seal (not even the first round of sweeping) for me I ran into on one of my regular routes. Nearly wiped out because I was taking a righthand turn at speed and didn't know it was there until it was too late. But, the tires were just fine for me. Can't remember what I was running at the time but I think it was Continental 4Seasons which is pretty much a GP4000s with a reinforced sidewall.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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Don’t think I’ve ever had a puncture on chip seal, despite how rough and awful it feels. I’ve always assumed that the small sharp shards of glass/flints that can cause punctures end up between the chips, thus you don’t ride directly over them.

That said I still ride GP4k/5k on chip seal as I don’t think there is real benefit on a Corsa speed or similar and I suspect it is very wearing on the tyre.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Chip and seal really sucks but go with your race tire and deal with the bumps. The chance of a puncture because of the chip and seal is very small.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Want you want is a wide supple tire and low pressure.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Gatorskins are about the LAST tire you want. Chip seal isn't a puncture hazard but it's definitely a very rough ride so you need something that rolls well and slightly lower pressure than normal. If it's only part of the course you'll need to consider the tradeoffs but there should be a decent compromise.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Corsa Speed tubeless or Conti 5000 tubeless on low air pressure should be the ticket. I did a couple of century rides, about half of each were on chip sealed roads, using Corsa Speed 23mm tubeless pumped up to 68 psi, and the ride quality was superb.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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As mentioned, chipseal isn't going to increase your puncture chances. It's just a rough ride. So as also has been mentioned, you want low crr tires and lower pressures, so bigger tires. I'd definitely do 28mm if you can fit them on your frame. Then if you can I'd do a few tests to figure out what pressure will be the fastest for your on that specific chipsealed road. When I know I'm going to be riding on rough chipseal I run 60psi on gp 5000 28mm tires on ENVE wheels. So smooth.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
I don’t think they are warranted; I ride these types of roads in Texas all the time with GP 4000sii with no major issues other than the typical discomfort associated with them. 14 miles isn’t too long...probably just consider 25mm with slightly less PSI
This. I ride the same crappy TX roads and my GP 4000sii tires have been great. Never flatted in 20+ races on them, average less than a flat a year in training. And yes, I realize I just jinxed myself.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Boring response to echo all above, but another person that is NZ based and so rides chipseal most of the time. For racing over the last 10 years I've used Vittoria Corsas clinchers with latex tubes. The tubes make a big difference to feel and I would say pace based on relative times, albeit I've never been bothered to do formal power testing on them. I just believe the data from those that have and my 'feel'.

I will say that those tyres do look pretty shredded after 200kms on them, albeit I've then used for training / B races without incident after.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
Corsa Speed tubeless or Conti 5000 tubeless on low air pressure should be the ticket. I did a couple of century rides, about half of each were on chip sealed roads, using Corsa Speed 23mm tubeless pumped up to 68 psi, and the ride quality was superb.
Totally agree except personally I'd skip the tubeless hassle and go with latex tubes, but either should be good. 23mm up front and 25mm rear, with fairly low pressures.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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No tubeless hassle for me. Set up was as easy as pie. Zero issues.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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Go with the widest, supplest tire you can run at the lowest safe pressure you can run. Latex tubes or tubeless if either are an option for you.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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That's the same thing I would do.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [mike_w] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I ran Schwable Stelvio which normally pump to 145, so only ran 105 psi. The chip and seal was three days old and they did a good job sweeping it, however there were some loose gravel spots/lanes throughout. Almost bought it on the initial entry turn in to the road were the gravel was very loose. Compared to a rough patched and pot holed section that wasn’t chip seal yet, the new surface wasn’t bad! I had latex tubes but didn’t use them. They are about 10 years old and didn’t want my first use of these to be during a race. Are they still good?
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
I ran Schwable Stelvio which normally pump to 145, so only ran 105 psi.
Why in the world did you run your tires at 145 psi? Do you weigh over 350 lbs? Are you aware that running your tires at that high of a pressure will slow you down significantly over rough roads?


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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
vonschnapps wrote:
I ran Schwable Stelvio which normally pump to 145, so only ran 105 psi.
Why in the world did you run your tires at 145 psi? Do you weigh over 350 lbs? Are you aware that running your tires at that high of a pressure will slow you down significantly over rough roads?

No, I ran them at 105 psi, but normally run them at 145 on typical roads.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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I typically inflate to the tire pressure listed on the sidewall, never saw that chart before and always thought higher pressure was faster.
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Re: Tire choice for chip seal road [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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vonschnapps wrote:
I typically inflate to the tire pressure listed on the sidewall, never saw that chart before and always thought higher pressure was faster.
The whole point of the air chamber within a pneumatic tire is to serve as suspension. If we wanted to make tires as stiff as possible, we'd just run solid strips of rubber straight on metal rims.

Ideally, the tire should be pumped soft enough that it mostly deforms around surface irregularities. If the tire does not deform around an irregularity, rolling over the irregularity causes the bicycle and rider to be vertically deflected. This vertical deflection costs energy, and this energy is stolen from your forward motion. Even if you're on a fairly smooth road surface, and the vertical deflections are a subtle buzzing, it can be costing you some watts. (It does also cost energy for a tire to deform around an irregularity, but usually much less than what it costs to vertically deflect the bicycle and rider.)
The rougher the surface, the squishier a tire needs to be pumped in order to serve effectively as suspension.

Now, going too low on pressure can also increase rolling resistance. When a section of the tire rolls onto the ground and becomes the contact patch, it gets deformed under the rider's weight, which costs energy; when it leaves the tail end of the contact patch and springs back to round, some (but not all) of the previously-lost energy is converted back into forward motion. By pumping a tire stiffer, less of this deformation occurs in the first place, and so less energy is lost from this effect.
BUT
Typically, you need to pump a tire really darn squishy before this effect gets very dramatic. It's typically much better for performance to err low on pressure to avoid suspension problems, than to err high on pressure to minimize the constant tire deformation at the contact patch. (And that's even without accounting for the comfort benefits of erring low.)

The reason that beefy bombproof tires have more rolling resistance than supple racing tires is that they tend to be constructed from stiff materials that don't spring back very lively. So when a section of the tire becomes the contact patch, it costs more energy to deform it against the ground, and you get less of that energy back when it springs back to round at the tail end of the contact patch. You can try to "solve" this by pumping the tire really stiff, but then it suffers from a harsh ride and poor suspension performance, so it's still slow.

Here's a good article:

https://blog.silca.cc/...stance-and-impedance
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