You’re going to need a better photo, ideally a video.
Perpendicular to your cranks at about hip height.

I have to echo Matty's sentiment here and suggest a better photo at a minimum. Video, however, tells the story much better and would be a more productive medium to critique.

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I'm jealous of your carbon repair skills (and the nice frame you ended up with), but your filming needs some improvement ;-).
Yep, I think a ''slow-mo'' video from any Iphone will do a good job, Ask someone to film you from the side.

Louis :-)

I’ll get on it. I packed up the stuff for the night, but will get on it tomorrow.

Now looking closer than when I uploaded it, that’s pretty crap photo quality.

Video 1, back on seat:



Video 2, forward on seat:




When I uploaded this it compressed it to be a bit lower quality. But this time I did film it dead on, hip height, at "target power output", and is video.

While doing this each time I am looking down at first to get up to "target power" then get into position. I wanted the video to be of me riding at the target power output to capture anything that would show up doing that versus someone farting around at 100w. I think if people shoot video/photos of position at a power nowhere near how they'll actually ride, it may cause issues.

How did it feel? Both feel fine. Definitely I "feel" more "hip angle" or "open" on this bike than I did on the road bike with clip ons.

Just a starting point.

problem is....re power.....target power is good and all, but that is not really how you are going to lok riding at target power after 30minutes. first couple of minutes at target power might just as well be 100w vs 300w since you are not going to feel it or be fatigued.

re saddle.....how are you really going to ride that saddle, I doubt that, at power 30min+, you are going to have a choice, its going to be whatever it really is. with a split saddle, you can actually ride at beginning where you will the entire 1 hour and you can actually adjust it forward and back if you are looking to dial in where it should be ideally for w/cda.

you seem to be going about this the wrong way, ie basing position on saddle, rather than saddle based on position. this may not be your intent, but that is how the videos make it appear

No, that’s good feedback. I’m cool with that. It’s a budget build, but I can swing a used saddle or a used demo saddle.

It was just to get me started with something.

Thanks for responding.

Are your elbow angle and your saddle to bar end reach UCI legal?

The pads and skis can come back. I can’t find my fabric tape measure, but it must be more than 75cm.

I think as of 2017 you can either go forward 5cm more on the saddle OR your skis without a morphological test.

Meaning if the saddle is 5cm back then the ski ends can be 80cm.

Me thinks I have some measuring to do.

Found it, not even close. Some work to do, lol.

Way over.

Why do you need to adhere to UCI guidelines? I wouldn't take away that reach just to conform to UCI unless you plan on racing at worlds or some other event that enforces setback and overall extension length

If you want to see how you look with power down, then setup a bluetooth shutter or other type of remote for your camera and start filming at the end of a 20 minuet effort at FTP or even 90%. You'll likely see any breakdown in posture once you get past 6 or 7 minutes. Another approach is just film the whole 20 minutes and then trim out the bits you don't want/need.

I'm curious as to why you tried two different postures on the saddle? I find I only sit on one spot on any saddle I've ever ridden (i.e. the correct spot for me). Onto my critiques/observations....

Video compression is a mess and light is terrible too. I started cutting up your images to give you an overlay, but due to the darkness and poor quality i'm not enjoying myself doing it. Therefore, I won't be posting any images. :P But, what I do see is that I like the rearward position more than the forward. So, I would suggest finding a saddle that works here and this is the item you should splurge on, even if you are going for a budget build. You seriously toe point and from what I can gather it has your leg extension sub 140º in both positions. It also looks like you're running a whole lot of reach, a whole lot. This may be what it will be due to your front end, but it looks like with flat hands you may be putting out a lot of effort to hold that position. Have you done any longer efforts at power?

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I Googled the toe pointing thing. It explains what it is and some of the consequences of it, but didn’t offer a “how”. Do you just not do it?

Is it a comfort only problem for saddle/sit like they explain or does it have any “efficiency” or power loss implications also?

I’m all ears if there’s anything to gain there because from watching myself spin in the mirror at the gym I toe point also in the road position.

you might consider a Fizik Mistica Large saddle as an option for a UCI legal snub-nosed saddle, especially if you settle on position 2 above.

I'd disagree with LAI, you're not toe pointing you're "ankling". To me, your saddle looks a little high, but I don't know what the cause of ankling is. I just don't see it that often as a fitter.

Regarding your position, that reach will not be sustainable unless you add a little tilt and use ski bend extensions. Again, this will lead you to position # 2, and also help with shrugging shoulders and turtling head out of wind.

good luck.

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Yep. You're right. I saw what you saw when I watched the video again.

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No new video yet, but I moved the cups and skis back both exactly an inch. I also adjusted the seat back a touch.

The difference in bike stability is shockingly better. Also, I can now put out pretty much road bike power on the TT bike.

One inch. Wowzas.

I need a good route or good day to get some watt/CdA stuff....but for what it is even with road helmet and flappy winter LS kit it feels stupid fast. Can’t imagine with skinsuit, helmet, disc, trispoke.

One inch. That stability and confidence meant faster descending, cornering, more power.

If there is an easy/cheap way to do it, I think you would benefit from angling your arms ever so slightly up. Like if you could get your hands an inch higher or your elbows an inch lower. In my experience this makes it easier to keep a good head position.

I got the idea finally of how to mount the extensions to that old HED base bar to get them closer to my arms for some cleaner air. If you look at the old videos above, the extensions were mounted under the base bar. Now it is mounted on top right next to the pads. I also brought the pads in about 1/2 inch to center. Oh, and a new Mistica saddle also.

I tried these videos from both side and front view, with hands normal and hands on top.

I'm going to ride it this way for a while and see how it goes. These were done at power, I'm not fatigued, but at least wanted to not be spinning free. In practice, I've been able to hold position fine other than a little bit of a TT bike scoot once in a while.

Normal hands, new position, side view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYqXompAnpg

Normal hands, new position, front view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tQAtjBnjUU

Hands on top, new position, side view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz4CUL17YM8

Hands on top, new position, front view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Odwln9uWzE


On a pretty flat with one or two rollers in my du last weekend, the other fit was good for 23.5mph on about 215w. On crap tires. We'll see how this iteration works out. And I'll get to work on getting some good tires. I can ride harder, but not running. I don't run.

One HUGE improvement was ditching the cheap 11-28 cassette I had on there. It's been converted to 11spd, but still. I went with 12-25 and the power delivery is so darn smooth now. I was missing that 16 cog badly.

On the to-do list:
-1x ring(s)
-aero skewers
-used lace up shoes and used Speedplays
-used 170mm crank and meter, keep the 175 crank on the road bike only..........this crank IMHO is too long

That's starting to look really good. If you dare, you could try wearing your helmet more in a "UK TT-ing" style. That is a bit rotated backwards. This will both give it a better transition to your back and a bit better forward view, for you.

Agreed. Also, that lid was only like $35 as "new old stock" some bike shop was dumping.

So, I wouldn't be out much buying something a little more appropriate.

One day on a ride wearing it, I wanted to simulate the effect of what a cross wind might do by looking to the side for a second.........yowzzaaas. I could feel that. I know at these TT speeds that the yaw is low (note the trispoke), but still.

Would kill two birds with one stone.......avoid wearing the helmet in a totally non protective way and also get modern.

For me, I do tend to look down road a bit........most of the TT stuff is "not official" so we're out there with traffic. Someone could pop out of a driveway. So I don't like looking just 30 yards ahead.

Then again, I like the option of being able to glance up-road for 1/8 mile and then look down just that 30 yards and not worry about it affecting my CdA too much.

You buy into the 16t cog voodoo?

Lol, I must not be in the loop. What is the 16t cog "voodoo"?

On the 11-28, my power output would look like a little sawtooth. The cadence was OK, but in comparison to a 12-25 a mess. My V.I. has always been pretty good, but the V.I. with the 12-25 was really really good.

I mean, the 11-28 goes 15/17/19 and the 12-25 goes 15/16/17/19. On a TT around here, I'm mostly in the 14 to the 19. 54 tooth ring and around 100 rpm. Meaning, I was constantly going 15/17/15/17/15 and messing with my cadence. That gear combo, that's over 3mph from 15 to 17 at same cadence. Hence, needing the 16.

Luddites think the 16t is the perfect gear. Because they always ride the same speed at the same grade on the same quality road surface in the same weather conditions with the same front chainring(s). Basically they are idiots.

I'd miss the 16 on a TT bike. Not road though.

BTW, the 11-28 11spd Sram cassettes have a 16.

Ahhh, thanks! Good to know.


Ahhhh, gotcha. Thanks. Nope, not a luddite here. The perfect gear for me is what allows me to put out power and keep a cadence that I like. I don't care if that's a 16, a 15, or a 32.