Having the cleaner front end with less exposed cables, etc. is probably worth about 100g of drag, which equates to about 3 minutes over 180km.

This assumes you are biking between 5 and 5.5 hrs for IM.

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Team Kiwami
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You're very much underestimating given that the p3-p4 difference is close to 45 sec to 60 secs on a 40k and the p5 is supposedly 30 seconds faster than the p4 so you are really looking at 5-6 mins.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25

Silly question, but if the P5 makes such huge savings and tout themselves as so aero why aren't they winning all the bike stages at Kona? Time trials at the TdF etc.?

Pete Jacobs won last year on a Boardman AiR/TT 9.8, I'd be interested to know where the first P5 came in the Pro men's rankings.

I hear a lot of people banding around some huge theoretical time savings but it seems that the proof is in the pudding (get someone who can ride with a power meter at the same agreed wattages on the P2 & P5 and do some proper side by side tests over a 180km distance outside and in the velodrome) but it's like everyone would rather avoid that and have an almost religious belief in the stats Cervelo pump out to its followers.

I did a road test comparing P3SL to P4 a while back.
The claims pretty much check out.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/..._latest_reply;so=ASC

Cool, thanks for the thread link, people like you need more exposure, wind tunnel data might be fun but it doesn't beat some real-world data for backing these claims up.

Firstly, pro athletes will ride a brand that they can get a sponsorship agreement with. Obviously Cervelo does not sponsor all (if any) pro triathletes. I guess most pro triathletes will give up a small amount of time to get a sponsorship than shell out approx. $10,000 of their own money for a P5 (how many pro triathletes do you think can afford that kind of money?)

Secondly, the time savings quoted here are from the P2 to P5, time differences to other superbikes will be smaller. If you think you might be giving up 1-2 minutes on your sponsors bike to a P5, your financial situation might outweigh the time savings.

As far as TT results are concerned, I'm not sure if Cervelo are even sponsoring a ProTour team any more? Again, comes down to sponsorship agreements. Cervelo may have realised the there is a bigger profit margin in selling a P5 to the age group athletes (geometry is more like the P2 than the P3) than spending money on sponsorships.

Well for one the savings are not huge compared to the Speed Concept, Shiv, Scott Plasma.

For two, talent differences are also quit huge.

For three, not everyone sets up their bikes equally well. A P5 on mediocre wheels and tires would be slower than a P2 with great wheels and tires. A bad position on a P5 would be slower than a great position on a P2, and so on.

Anyone, P2 to P5 - you save about 100g of drag, which using the aero rule of thumb, is about 1 second per kilometer. 40 seconds in a 40k TT.

That is 'huge' in the content of a time trial, I would not call it 'huge' for triathlon purposes. Plus that savings is only realized in an idealized flat course (florida ironman! haha)

I can't afford a P5, so we make sure our P2/P3s are set up very well to close some of that 100g gap.

Also the boardman frame is pretty awesome,

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Are you kidding?

Cervelo sponsors many top Triathletes including a Kona podium in both the mens and women's race.
They also sponsor the Garmin team.

Funny how this internet search thing works...

You can kinda tell how the "if the p5 is so good why do they not get any triathlon results" people are trolls...or they just hate women ;)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

If the wind tunnel does not accurately represent the real world, how did we make it to space?

hahaha. I was told by a zip rep. that the difference between FC and dimpled wasn't as big as would think in real world test. I wonder if that applies to bike frames also. I mean isn't the biggest factor in the wind that big ugly thing turning the pedals?

yes of course the biggest factor is the thing turning the pedals, but 100g of drag is 100g of drag nonetheless.

What causes you to lose the theoretical time savings are things like turns, busted up pavement, hills, etc.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Why would you only work on the biggest factor, when the biggest factor is a fixed component on any bike. The person riding having a good position and having a fast bike aren't mutually exclusive.

Point taken, had a quick look but didn't realise Cervelo were sponsoring a ProTour team.

As far as triathlons go, based on the "what are they riding now" link on the home page, 5 of the 38 athletes listed are on Cervelo - that's 13%. i stand by my comments regarding sponsorship $ versus perceived bike speed gains.

Absolutely, 99% of the time the decision is entirely about money. Sometimes an athlete has a big enough name to pick a bike sponsor for the technical advantage (Craig Alexander comes to mind) but most do not.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

you missed his point: SCIENCE shows, over and over again, that real world data and wind tunnel data track so closely that the wind tunnel is a very good proxy for the real world. Where do you think he got the science for the field tests? From the same people who also do the science for the wind tunnel tests. Hear us now, believe us later.

1. Science works.
2. What a pro rides very often has nothing to do with how fast it goes or not.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I understand science by definition works, but you have to realise this data often comes from the same company selling the product... do you believe all the negative ion "science" with the placebo wrist bands that athletes are paid to wear?


Wrong or right I just think that a wind tunnel will show you in perfectly controlled conditions time savings made by a certain position, bike & helmet etc. real-world testing (whether outside in variable wind conditions or in a velodrome) will show you what happens when the conditions are the same of that you will face in a race. If not for the sake of testing the things you know or don't know that a wind tunnel tests show.

I'm just saying, it's in the interests of companies like Cervelo to show (however they can) that their new superbike makes huge savings and therefore justifies the massive (and it is massive) cost, the same way Gillette have been trying relentlessly to market 5 blade razors to me & you when 3 blades is more than enough.

Just be sceptical is all I'm saying.

Overheard at the A2 Wind Tunnel recently concerning a P5 as it was ran through the yaw sweeps. Oh my god, that bike just disappeared!

Don't tell my guys form " " insert name of top company.

I have a P2 and should have a P5 in the next week and do look forward to doing some testing. I have a nice, flat, stretch that I use which has zero stops. I have used it for years so I have built up a lot of data. I am most looking forward to see my P5 numbers. I do believe the numbers I have on zero wind days with my P4, Ventus, Omega will be very difficult to beat. On windy days I will be curious to see the P2 versus P5.

Were you actually there??

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Yes it was my P5

were you on it, and which yaw angle was it?

also, what wheels? =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

not looking for if you were on it, just would you be so kind as to share the 0 and 10 deg shakedown numbers(and size frame)