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Thoughts on my FTP boost block
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Monday: Easy 1 hr @60%
Tuesday: 2x15' @95-105% with 5 min recoveries (this will increase a minute each week until 2x20)
Wednesday: Easy 1 hr@ 60%
Thursday: 5x5'@110-115% with 5 min recoveries
Friday: 2 hrs @60%
Saturday: Long Ride with 5x10'@88-92%
Sunday: 2 hrs easy @60% with some 30" sprints
Repeat for 3 weeks then test and do it all over again for 8-12 weeks
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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Without knowing your goals difficult to comment.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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Thursday: Recovery periods too long for 5-min efforts
Saturday: Try 5x10' @ 100% FTP during the long ride
Sunday: Increase duration to at least 3 hrs to force adaptation. 2 hrs easy won't do squat.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [Livio Livius] [ In reply to ]
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My goal is to go from 320 to 350. I'm coming off some unstructured riding since October. My FTP this summer was 340.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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In typical internet fashion, I will suggest the opposite of Richard L. Your work is fine. But I'd alternate it with a week where you cut down the # of intensity workouts by 1-2 and replace it with more endurance work. Then hit those intensity workouts with high quality the next week.

You have progressive overload and "micro periodization" (easier days between hard days), but no indication of "macro" periodization. Which I've found useful.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:

You have progressive overload and "micro periodization" (easier days between hard days), but no indication of "macro" periodization. Which I've found useful.

This.

Also, instead of starting at 2x 15 and stretching out to 20, why not start at 20 and just increase the effort over time. Is 15’ the limit of your current fitness?
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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If your summer FTP was 340 it shouldn't take you long to get back to that. I wouldn't make your 5 minute efforts shorter like someone else suggested. Whenever I see a workout scheduled like that I see rest at equal rest.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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TRIDAVID2 wrote:
Monday: Easy 1 hr @60%
Tuesday: 2x15' @95-105% with 5 min recoveries (this will increase a minute each week until 2x20)
Wednesday: Easy 1 hr@ 60%
Thursday: 5x5'@110-115% with 5 min recoveries
Friday: 2 hrs @60%
Saturday: Long Ride with 5x10'@88-92%
Sunday: 2 hrs easy @60% with some 30" sprints
Repeat for 3 weeks then test and do it all over again for 8-12 weeks

5' @ 115%? No way I could ever hold that. my god.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
TRIDAVID2 wrote:
Monday: Easy 1 hr @60%
Tuesday: 2x15' @95-105% with 5 min recoveries (this will increase a minute each week until 2x20)
Wednesday: Easy 1 hr@ 60%
Thursday: 5x5'@110-115% with 5 min recoveries
Friday: 2 hrs @60%
Saturday: Long Ride with 5x10'@88-92%
Sunday: 2 hrs easy @60% with some 30" sprints
Repeat for 3 weeks then test and do it all over again for 8-12 weeks


5' @ 115%? No way I could ever hold that. my god.

I agree, I'm a pure roadie and that is very hard. It is doable but i would have be be completely fresh. I would build into that, start at 4x4, then 5x4, then 5x5. I always prefer to plan for something that is 100% attainable and then if i am nailing it the first week adjust as needed. The primary concern is how it will effect the rest of your week.

Overall looks fine, as always the key is proper intensity, interval time, and cumulative time. I always shoot for my threshold sessions to be at a minimum 90% or above, at least 10 minute intervals, for a total time of 35 minutes. Ideally a total time of 45-60 minutes but lets be honest sometimes the legs say no.

http://riseabovecyclingpodcast.podbean.com/
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
TRIDAVID2 wrote:
Monday: Easy 1 hr @60%
Tuesday: 2x15' @95-105% with 5 min recoveries (this will increase a minute each week until 2x20)
Wednesday: Easy 1 hr@ 60%
Thursday: 5x5'@110-115% with 5 min recoveries
Friday: 2 hrs @60%
Saturday: Long Ride with 5x10'@88-92%
Sunday: 2 hrs easy @60% with some 30" sprints
Repeat for 3 weeks then test and do it all over again for 8-12 weeks


5' @ 115%? No way I could ever hold that. my god.

110% - 125% is going to cover maybe 95% of riders' abilities to do a bunch of long rest 5:00 intervals.

If there was only one workout to take to a desert island, it would be 5:00 VO2 intervals, with 5:00 rest, @ 115-118% for me. This has been the overall most effective session for myself and many I've coached over the years. I have some pure diesels who do it at no more than 110-112% and have seen a few hold 120+% for 6 x 5:00.


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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds too ambitious to me. You are riding 7 days a week and you have your recover rides at 60% of FTP, which I think puts you well into the endurance zone, not recovery. It is also only January. The 5x5@115% sounds pretty hard if you want to be going well still in August and VO2max is less important than threshold work for building FTP.

I tend to just focus on quality because I don't do any crazy long stuff. I also figure I have enough years of riding to leave most of the garbage/recovery miles behind. If it were me I would drop Mon, Wed, Friday and maybe swim a bit. Tuesday would be 2x20@97% (hard but not as devastating as 105%). Thursday is the 60@88-92. Saturday is the hard day 5x5@105-110% and then cruise at 60% for endurance.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
Sounds too ambitious to me. You are riding 7 days a week and you have your recover rides at 60% of FTP, which I think puts you well into the endurance zone, not recovery. It is also only January. The 5x5@115% sounds pretty hard if you want to be going well still in August and VO2max is less important than threshold work for building FTP.

I tend to just focus on quality because I don't do any crazy long stuff. I also figure I have enough years of riding to leave most of the garbage/recovery miles behind. If it were me I would drop Mon, Wed, Friday and maybe swim a bit. Tuesday would be 2x20@97% (hard but not as devastating as 105%). Thursday is the 60@88-92. Saturday is the hard day 5x5@105-110% and then cruise at 60% for endurance.

Random question. Why not do lots of 60 min Zwift races - on the flat course it’ll be almost all out for 60 mins. Otherwise you’ll get a max 20-25 min effort on the rest of the days.

Repeat as many times / week as your body can handle

That’s what I’ve been doing, but I’ve also plateaued a bit. It’s also a blast for me and I have so much fun

Is the above more effective?
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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mvenneta wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
Sounds too ambitious to me. You are riding 7 days a week and you have your recover rides at 60% of FTP, which I think puts you well into the endurance zone, not recovery. It is also only January. The 5x5@115% sounds pretty hard if you want to be going well still in August and VO2max is less important than threshold work for building FTP.

I tend to just focus on quality because I don't do any crazy long stuff. I also figure I have enough years of riding to leave most of the garbage/recovery miles behind. If it were me I would drop Mon, Wed, Friday and maybe swim a bit. Tuesday would be 2x20@97% (hard but not as devastating as 105%). Thursday is the 60@88-92. Saturday is the hard day 5x5@105-110% and then cruise at 60% for endurance.

Random question. Why not do lots of 60 min Zwift races - on the flat course it’ll be almost all out for 60 mins. Otherwise you’ll get a max 20-25 min effort on the rest of the days.

Repeat as many times / week as your body can handle

That’s what I’ve been doing, but I’ve also plateaued a bit. It’s also a blast for me and I have so much fun

Is the above more effective?

If you race all year long, which I consider Zift races to mimic, you can hold maybe 90% of your potential all year long. You miss the build/recover/build/..taper/4-6 weeks of 100% potential.

The continuous anaerobic and neuromuscular efforts really do a lot of damage so it is hard to recover and there is the mental fatigue to deal with as well. (Religiously sticking to a training plan can also suck, so if you feel like throwing down on a group ride in January, go for it. Just don't make it the only thing you do).

There is a good article in Velo magazine this week on the same basic idea. Not a bad general read.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Ok this sounds like a good plan ( Tuesday would be 2x20@97% (hard but not as devastating as 105%). Thursday is the 60@88-92. Saturday is the hard day 5x5@105-110% and then cruise at 60% for endurance). Maybe throw in one 70-75% ride in there as well.

Yes I will be running and swimming.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Do you perform those 5min intervals on the road bike or on tt position in tri bike?
Thanks
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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My set up in the winter is road bike on trainer.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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TRIDAVID2 wrote:
My goal is to go from 320 to 350. I'm coming off some unstructured riding since October. My FTP this summer was 340.


Seems doable and your plan doesn't seem ridiculous. Have you asked TRIDAVID1 to take a look?


Just to throw in some more random comments:
  • For me, riding at 60% is super easy, I'd notch it up to 65-70%
  • Put some kind of progression in there, e.g. 5x5 min one week, then 4x7 the next week, then 3x8 the week after. I find that is useful for keeping my body and mind guessing.
  • Potentially do some of the work in a large gear to find some other stimulation.
  • If you don't up the intensity of the 60%, I think you should go longer, e.g. 2 hours; to get an effect.
  • Have a plan for rest days? Taking them when you need them or once every second week?

(This all assumes you can handle the volume without much of an issue).


How much do you weight by the way?
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [dado0583] [ In reply to ]
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Well...I decided to be conservative and do 4x5' intervals since I've never done then at 110%+ before. I was able to hit 110% on the 1st 3 then hard a hard time holding 100% on the last one. This was way harder than I thought! I was a little fatigue since I did a FTP test on Monday and had some decent runs on Monday and Tuesday. I may need to adjust this some.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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I'm assuming you have already started here, but here's my input since I made roughly the jump you're looking to make (which got me to 5w/kg for 20min), and didn't ride as much as you're planning to.

If you're planning on running during this block, be cautious and run very easy. I would not do a long run. I think 4-5x4mi easy slow runs would more than suffice to hold some run ability while you focus on riding.

If you're planning on swimming during this block, consider doing that in lieu of the easy hour rides. On the easy hour rides, don't be afraid to go easier than 60%. Don't be afraid to skip them.

I'm not sure what type of rider you are (high end or more of a diesel type rider), but I know I tend towards diesel and when I do 5x5 I would be closer to 108-110%. The important part is the physiological response, so if your heart rate etc is up to where you know it should be for a VO2 type effort, you're getting the work in.

Looking back at TrainingPeaks, in 4 or 5 weeks I made the jump from about 308 for 20min to 345 for 20min (I weigh 69kg), with the former effort more rested than the latter. In those weeks, I rode an average of about 5.5hrs/week, with a minimum of 3:45 and a maximum of 7:01. Every week had one session of threshold (3x15, 4x12, etc), and one session of VO2 type work (6x4, 4x5, etc). For 3 of those weeks, I had a third key workout of 15x(1min @ 120%/1min ez) followed by 12x(1min @ 120%/30sec ez) followed by 2min @ 120% to finish. Everything else was secondary to those few rides. I swam 12-15k/week and ran about 15mi/week.

I hope this is helpful!

"They misunderestimated me."
-George W. Bush

darkhorsetriathlon.com
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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The third interval should be the repeatable one when doing VO2 work.
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Re: Thoughts on my FTP boost block [TRIDAVID2] [ In reply to ]
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With the advice some people are giving I would be really careful about recovery. I understand that that hard lung busting intervals are sexy, but without proper recovery you're going to crash and burn. With all of that effort you need proper recovery rides/runs/swims in it. Last thing you want to do is overtrain in January and mess up your season, or worse really screw up your body for years (which happened to me).

If you're going to run and swim those should all be short and done at recovery effort. As much as I hate/get bored doing a recovery ride on the trainer I know the benefit of them.
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