In my opinion Tom, thats just another example of this being a sport for those with disposable income and no knowledge of the importance of fit.....its more trendy to have Durace than 105's.

Well, I think people get out into the buying arena and get a lot of conflicting information- some of it from resources like this- When they get the conflicting and confusing opinions of their local "expert", a couple bike shops and the Internet they wind up very confused. They don't see any consensus. They see contradiction and confusion. There isn't a clear, concise, delineated process in their mind for finding the right bike (or more correctly, the best suited bike for them).

When they encounter this they simply hit the mental "Reset" button and default to buying the cheapest bike with the "best" derailleurs or the coolest looking bike.

They feel they can trust their instincts in appearance and they have been socialized to understand that more expensive means "better". The question is, what does "better" mean?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"What are your thoughts on people buying bikes based on their componentry? "



The smart/educated consumer learns about the components and buys the best bang for the buck or only buys the best when it really matters. I can justify Dura Ace STI or rear derailleur over Ultegra/105 but not in the front derailleur. Can also justify CH Aero covers or Renn disc over Zipp/Campagnolo/Mavic.

I learned along time ago to never believe most sales people. Not just with bikes but with everything.

I think the learning curve in this sport is fairly steep and long and those on the early part of the curve are going to make plenty of mistakes. I know I did. It took me 6-7 yrs, 3 bikes, and the 4th "professional" fit before we got me to a tweaking stage -- where its down to mm changes. With people out there with all sorts of motives to steer the newby I figure you'll see more of this type of buyer as the sport continues to grow. It's got to be tough call on anyone who really knows what their doing when faced with a customer who's not making an informed decision but thinks that she/he is. If you tell them straight you risk the perception that you come off arrogant or manipulative. Or to set them strainght will take a large chunk of time that may result in a big fat "0" on your investment. FWIW I always appreciate when someone gives me there best take on any decision and leaves it up to me to decide. For the consumer on the front end of the triathlon curve my take is to decide on who's going to be "your guy/gal/LBS" and stick with them until its self-evident its time to move on. It's the relationship that matters.

You make it sound like 'good fit' and 'most bang for the buck' are mutually exclusive.

As a consumer, why shouldn't I expect both?

You should expect both. Absolutely.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I've sort of been guilty of this in the past. I would try to figure out what bike I wanted based on what component group it had. Then I became more and more aware of fit. I also started realizing that I wouldn't be any faster on Dura Ace than I was on 105 or Tiagra. That was like a lightning bolt from the sky. So when it came time to buy a new bike, I went for fit and value. That combination resulted in a Yaqui Manzanita -- great fit, excellent customer service and a solid 105 group through and through. I would have liked to have had Centaur over 105, but I couldn't get that unless I went with a Mariola, which I couldn't afford. In the end, I figured that if Ves could set me up correctly, the component group really didn't matter. I think I made the right decision.

I have finally figured out that fit is what matters. It's easy to get caught up in frame materials, components, etc., but that's not where it's at. I think it takes a discerning and educated customer to look beyond all the marketing hype and make a buying decision on fit. I used to be a dope when it came to all this stuff. I'm still kind of dumb with the details, but I do know that the best purchasing decisions are based on fit, not the glitz and glam of carbon, titanium, Dura Ace, Record, etc.

RP

You're a smart man.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Personally, I would be concerned about buying the least expensive bike with the best components. All things being equal, the manufacturer is probably making up the difference with a cheaper frame. Anyone else notice that the B2 no longer uses Easton tubing? Not that it is a bad frame, but I would not spend $3700 on a bike with that frame.

My next ride is a 78 degree Carbo with a Centaur/Veloce mix. Yeah, some people may deride my lowly centaur and veloce components, but with the budget I have, that's what I can afford - I am not going to sacrifice fit and frame quality for slightly better components.

 "Anyone else notice that the B2 no longer uses Easton tubing? Not that it is a bad frame, but I would not spend $3700 on a bike with that frame."

The new tubing is designed by the product guys at Felt and by Jim. The logisitics of getting the Easton tubes to the builder was the greatest hurdle in building the Easton tubed bikes. Did you consider that with Jim's background in designing the tubing for Easton (he worked for them for years) that he could do the same for a tubing supplier in closer proximity to the frame builder.

I agree the Easton tubing is great, but if you got the guy that designed THAT tubing to design it for a different company why do you expect it to be inferior?

The S22 from last year was welded up from Easton pipes, this year it isn't and it lost weight and gained an aero seat tube.

Should we go back?

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Well one of the reasons is because the inexperienced log on to forums like this and see well respected experts making outlandish claims for components and add-ons. They then assume that these items are indispensable.

eg Tubulars v clinchers

I think that the bulk of amateur triathletes are looking to have some fun, get some shiny toys, and challenge themselves a little. Most local bike shops don't have good bike fitters familiar with TT/tri fitting, and most athletes aren't industrious enough, or have enough time to figure it out on their own, or buy the John Cobb video or whatever. People buy cars because of the stereo package, electronics beause of the number of buttons or functions, and bikes because of whatever the cool add-ons are. That's part of what keeps the bike companies, component companies, and bike shops in business, and it helps keep people in the sport and paying entry fees so that those who do know enough have a stable sport to race in. I built my last two bikes from the frameset up, collecting components from all over the internet and from stores, so for me, buying a complete bike from anywhere is not very cost effective. But hey, that's just me. Average joe triathlete can buy whatever he or she wants, and in reality, would probably never know the difference between their frame and anyone elses except for the paint job. Getting involved in mm measurements and aerodynamics, and materials, and engineering is not why they do the sport.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

IMO tubulars are indispensible for racing. I have enough real world experience I don't have any reservations about saying that.

I think I'm doing people a favor by telling them that. I could be saving their race.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Hey, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't spend $3700 on a bike with that frame or with the frame from last year. Why would I when I can get the same frame for, what, $2300 on the S22? I could get a DA with Ultegra for less than $3700, and it's a better frame, right? There are dozens of other, better frames out there - better by material (carbon, scandium, titanium), better by design (P3), better by fit (custom, steeper geometry) - that you can get built up for less than $3700 that will still come with very good, if not the latest and greatest, components. FWIW, I would be on a TT700 right now if the top tube weren't too long for me - I was very, very close to buying one last year - for much less than $3700.

In my humble opinion, all the carbon crap or the DA10 thrown on the B2 is just bling bling and will almost certainly not make a performance difference for the majority of the people that will buy a B2. Sure it will fit some perfrectly, but there are probably better options out there if you are willing to look past the fancy wheels and aero bars. The things I think really matter are frame, fork, bars and saddle. If you have all of these in the right setup for your body, the rest really fall in to place around it. I am certain that I will perform just as well on my bike with Veloce components as I would if it had Record.

I mistook the intention of your comment. If you mean that you can find a bike that offers what you are looking for for under $3700, I certainly can't argue that. I just wanted to point out that Felt didn't skimp on the tubing to make the bike cheaper. The frame is in fact an improvement over the Easton tubed frame we used in the past.

A DA with Ultegra would be in the same price range and your shop would likely give you your choice of bar/stem/clip-on/etc. That may be a better choice for many over an out of the box bike. I'm glad Felt offers both.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

We have two bike shops in town. One does work on fit and sells the best bike for the customer. The other sells CHEAP. It's not unusual to see someone riding a bike thats much to big. I always feel so bad for the lady that bought the latest bike with carbon campy shifters (size58). She brought it back to the shop and he gave her a fuji (56) with much money lost in the trade for the lady. She brought it to the other shop and asked if he could make it fit. He sold her a (50) which fit. He even made her a great deal becouse he felt so bad for her.

Well said, Blacksheep, well said.

One of my multisport idols is a local guy in his 40's who always posts top (or close to top) bike splits. He rides on a 10 year old Cannondale road frame with downtube shifters, 32 spoke MA3's, and the ol skool Scott aerobars. And he even races on -gasp!- CLINCHERS!