Agreed. But a little work with a dremel or file takes those right off... I wish other efforts to keep us "safe" were so easily reversed.

This. You can file those suckers down quickly and easily.

I make sure to leave a little nub ("just the tip"), cuz ya never know - but my wheels go on and off much more easily this way.
YMMV. Kids - don't try this at home!!!

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float , hammer , and jog

Lawyer tabs on front fork. Horizontal dropouts in rear. Total irony.

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Trek Madone 5.9SL
Felt B12 (sold)

 >Lawyer lips also require that the quick release be adjusted to give proper tension when closed.

Wouldn't you want the quick release to be adjusted to proper tension regardless?

Also there's been some analysis that shows the new disc brakes have the capability of generating force that can exceed the grip of a properly-secured quick-release. So you might want the tabs there if you have disc brakes. Which are the new hotness. You must have them.

Yes, of course. But with lawyer lips you need to adjust each time. Without lawyer lips you can set it once and then just use it as it was intended each time. No need to readjust.

Replying to ML, but not aimed at him. It's a general post. Um, not to run contrary to the prevailing opinion, but I will.

I was on a group ride in upstate NY with Erik Grimm...cat 2-3 kinda guy, who forgot to tighten his QR. Cranking along at 28-ish, had to bunny hop some train tracks, his front Ksyrium just rolled away. Face on ground, fork demolished, catastrophe. Took a solid year to recover. Tabs might have helped.

My question to the general public / people that have posted: why do you care? Unless you're racing a stage race or classic or grand fondo or crit where swapping a wheel MAY matter, why the fuck does anyone care about the extra two seconds to navigate the lawyer tabs? Are saying the hassle of a very small change in routing of how you mount a wheel, worth a couple of seconds at best, is a showstopper in terms of getting your ride in (that includes adjusting brakes). I just don't get it. BTW, I've got two bikes with, two bikes without.

Seriously. Want to understand, other than trying to be cool and maybe save yourself a few seconds here and there, why you'd have an opinion, much less a rant about this.

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- I do all my own stunts

Irony means whatever you want it to mean. Apparently.

Would be interesting to know how those things got their name. I've never considered them a nuisance - the few extra seconds it takes to secure the wheel isn't going to appreciably increase the amount of time I will have already lost in a race due to a tire change. Horizontal dropouts is another matter, however. Don't even get me started on those.

Clearly you missed the point of my post. I'm arguing that the additional adjustment required to mount a wheel on a fork with lawyer lips may increase, not decrease, the risk of a mishap. Bike owners who are not knowledgeable or attentive enough to mount a wheel to an old-school fork without lips are, I would guess, more likely to improperly secure a wheel on fork with lips because it is a more complex task. The irony is that, by attempting to make things safer, lawyer lips may have made things more dangerous.
The time it takes has nothing to do with my original post.

Being that I was the guy Erik was trying to chase down that day and his bike went back to my house ill stand by the fact that his QR failed that day.

There is no way he did that ride with his QR not tight as we had sprints and climbs at full on hammer mode for the previous hour plus. He and I dropped a lot of good riders that day and no way he did it with a loose wheel

I tested the front end of his bike post ride and believe me it was a failure not a untight QR. I can't remember but his fork might have had tabs as well as no way would Terbo would have filed them down and I know mine had them.

Anyhow back to the topic at hand. I have no issues with tabs, I'll suffer with the extra 1 second it takes

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

Wait, you are complaining about the small twist of your hand to increase the tension of the quick release as you mount the wheel? Damn you're lazy.

No, he corrected his previous post with, "I'm arguing that the additional adjustment required to mount a wheel on a fork with lawyer lips may increase, not decrease, the risk of a mishap. Bike owners who are not knowledgeable or attentive enough to mount a wheel to an old-school fork without lips are, I would guess, more likely to improperly secure a wheel on fork with lips because it is a more complex task. The irony is that, by attempting to make things safer, lawyer lips may have made things more dangerous."

This surprisingly fits most common definitions of "ironic", considering how diverse those definitions are.

Pulls hair with both hands and screams GEESUSS!!!!! Did you actually read the original post? Its not about me. I have bikes with and without lips. Lips don't bother me enough to file them. I have not trouble adjusting them properly.
I'm talking about the fact that many many beginning cyclists will have trouble properly adjusting their quick release every time they have to take the wheel on and off. For them I would think it would actually be safer to keep things simple and just have a quick release that actually works the way it was intended to work.
Goodbye for the life of this thread.

Wait, so you think beginning cyclists can't twist their hand to increase the tension of the quick release as they mount the wheel? Damn you're judgmental.

Having lawyer tabs completely negates the rationale of a "quick" release. Might as well just run wingnuts (which were used before QRs were invented), or run a set of these (lighter, more aero):

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I'm old school, I think the cause as much problem if not more.

1) In order to get your wheel,off, you have to unscrew the QR, multiple turns. You run the risk of completely unscrewing it and perhaps loosing the little spring. Or, not knowing how it goes on.

2) If I put my wheel in and forget to tighten the QR, the tabs will not prevent it from coming off as I've already backed off the QR. Isn't this what they were designed for in the first place?

3) Everytime I put the wheel back back on I have to readjust the tension. Too tight and,I risk early QR failure. Too loose and I risk the QR coming undone and the lawyer tabs doing their job at the,potential expense of my wheel getting caught up in the brake somehow.

4) I set my wheels up so that I have to release my brakes to get the wheel by the pads. They won't hit the Lawyer Tabs.

5) Novices don't know, as well, how to adjust the QR so it is one more task. If they didn't have to undo it but left it at the tension set by the LBS I think that would be better for them.

So now are we going to get special locking brackets to keep the pedals on? To keep the crank arms on? What about the seat, maybe it needs to be welded on. Lawyer Tabs are just pain stupid and IMHO do no good whatsoever other than to cause me to dislike whatever legal system has mandated these idiotic measures and to think of the billions of dollars spent of this.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

One of the guys in our group had his front wheel come off last year. He went over the handle bars and was injured pretty bad. Almost died on the side of the road. He is a doctor and still cannot practice due to being partially paralyzed on one side of his body. He bought the bike used. Apparently the previous owner filed off the lawyer tabs. Now the doctor is suing the local bike shop. I don't think he has a leg to stand.on but we will see.

Bunny hops are choices not "had to." But 28mph with a known train track makes the choice early on.

I filed my tabs off. My bike sits in the back of my van with the front wheel off. It is much easier to take the wheel on and off everyday. I nkae riding choices where I don't nooed to worry about my wheel falling off.

As much as they annoy me i am glad they are their for a little extra security both from theft and load while my bike is on my roof rack.

Back when i used to do some bmx i even made a notched set of the bolt on axle kind i left in the car that would better hold the fork to the rock.

Don't bother me enough to file them off.

Some good points..

In some cases, fork retention tabs do increase safety. And, especially with riders who use QRs incorrectly, they may also sometimes decrease safety. And I agree, they are annoying to fiddle with. But what is beyond debate: a failure of the front wheel retention system is nearly always a disaster for the rider aboard the bike.

Some additional irony: are courts are not clogged up with cases of riders suing over failed QRs or even over extremely hot coffee. Far from it. Nope, our civil courts are clogged up with cases of business suing other businesses. Welcome to america ...

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Not sure why you'd use a dremel for a job that's so easy to do right with a hand file and so easy to mess up with a power tool like a dremel. Piece of cake to get it nice and flat and smooth with a hand file, takes a really steady hand with a dremel and one slip and you can really mess up your fork.

The thing I find most tragic about lawyer tabs is that now the UCI is REQUIRING any bike made with them (so, any bike that isn't from a one-off custom builder) to sport the fork it was made with WITHOUT MODIFICATION. So they can't file off the tabs. Race mechanics are just shaking their heads.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

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Um, they're called lawyer tabs because the lawyers started telling bike companies they needed to include them?

They are a PITA, and negate much of the benefit of a quick release. However, since this is a tri site, you should all use them. Just don't judge people who opt not to.

You've never been in a bike race and gotten a flat front tire and then a wheel change from the follow car and had to chase back on have you?

They are also a major pain in the ass when putting bikes on a roof rack.

The fact that you can buy a $15,000 RACING bicycle and it's got those stupid tabs on them is about the stupidest thing I can think of.

The VERY first thing I do on any new frame or bicycle is to dremel those suckers off.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
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