His back still seems very curvy, aren’t there any gains to make in that department? All fast time trialists have much flatter backs

We tested the heck out of that one on the road.

Marginal to no difference and a "no f'in way I'm doing that for 4 hours" :-) (paraphrased)

Considering his rather unusual running style I would think a shoe fitting or exploration would be a huge PR win for any shoe company.
For someone as media savvy as he is, I wonder why that hasn't happened.
The eyeballs that would bring could be significant.

Curious if you guys wind tunnel tested a "knees in" position? His knees always look like parachutes flared out to the side.

It's just mind boggling to see our boy LS is finally doing wind tunnel test so late in the game like this. This should have been done many years ago!!!!

Some woman married that dude?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Somehow you sound negative. Yes, he married someone, loves his wife, lives happy life and just had a baby. I'm very happy for him and recent new dads, LS and Sam Long.

Well that means he knew already that he was going to do the Ironman series a long time before telling YouTube ;)

Yes, she's super nice and gorgeous and he treats her like a queen. Also, Talbot is a really good dude.

Keyboard warriors, man...

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Lionel really has run in almost everything out there and goes back to the Asics. It's funny that people question that - Blu, Lucy, Paula before On, Flora, so many triathletes chose the Metaspeed Sky over the nike. He's done a LOT of running in a LOT of shoes, even watching videos.

Raced in Alphaflys, Metaspeed Sky, Puma carbon shoe, I believe tested the Rocket x2.

Not having a shoe sponsor is, I believe, a calculated decision for him.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Lance Armstrong actually had a more curved back on the TT bike - sometimes it's a physiological limitation, which I suspect with Lionel here. Probably a situation of doing the best HE can, not what Remco can or someone like that. I thought he looked pretty good for some of the positions we've seen him in over the years.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Not to dispute your response, but right there is a whole video series on why........there's been a bunch of people voicing opinions on carbon shoes (ad nauseum) on here and he's a bit fearless in his opinions. And opinion is what we all rapturously watch.....

Oh, I get it and it would be a good video series for sure. And with the Olympic trials all sorts of fun new shoes coming out as well. Heck...a bunch of people chose to race in the Hoka over the Nike without sponsorship this year (notable for me, RVB). So...I'm on board for the video series, just not the idea that he hasn't checked all these things...

If I were a pro, unless my fastest shoe wanted to sponsor me, I would go without. Like Jason West - also in the Asics ironically - which he's tested the fastest - he said he would love the sponsorship but not with someone slower. I know a female runner who was stoked to join Hoka - and has been injured ever since off and on because they don't have a shoe that really works for her.

Goodness...we just all love Lionel content - fan boy or hater! lol

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

I would have to find it, but I have a video of him on the trainer and when I tell him to rotate his pelvis his back flattens considerably. We tested it on the road.

I am not a fitter, I know SFA on fitting. But his fitter was there was aware and was in the "no f'in way he's doing that for 4 hours" camp.

Lionel is pretty good at the "I am not doing that for 1 watt, for 3... maybe, for 5, sign me up".

Trust the experts :)

Anyone noticed by the way that Lionel is completely off the grid? no more Strava or Zwift activity posts. He was doing like 14h bike weeks on Zwift last weeks

I think he was / is traveling for some testing

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Didn’t he do testing at the Milton Velodrome with the Alphmantis setup years ago?

I do not see or follow his workouts. I do know he arrived at the tunnel Monday night. He had reserved a pool lane but they F'd up, so he went running at 9PM.

Then he did his longest ride to date and IM power in the tunnel all day Tuesday we was wiped at 4PM.. He went swimming Tuesday night and did 45x100.

He flew out Wed AM and bet money he ran Wed night.

He is very focused it seems

Yes - and again when he started with Canyon in LA. He's tested a bunch over the years. Literally videos of it haha. But I think he's now refining and testing more things and not just...trying to get good enough. Which worked for him 7 years ago but will not work today.

It's funny - I've been watching all these short course races from the 80s on youtube lately, and how really good some of the positions were at that time. Then you look at some of the positions in Kona a decade ago and wonder where we went wrong haha.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

He tested at Milton in 2016. I was part of the group there. This is when I first met him and we stayed in touch since. We pinged each other about aero probably every year since.

He did test between then and now. He would send me data, I would comment. Over the years he has learned what he did right and wrong. He has expressed how frustrating aero data can be. But since he has learned.

He analyzed every race he did in 2023 (and before). He then tested 3 days in October, 3 days in November, raced Indian Wells with a device and did a wind tunnel visit. I suspect he still has a few outdoor test days and many many aero test rides scheduled.

He has gone 270 of the 360 degrees aero assessment. Analysis of results, test/adjust, test/adjust, race/measure, confirm in tunnel, test/adjust and soon several simulation and race assessments.

Multiple parties have their eyes on the data, his fitter, his sponsors and people he trusts. There is no bullshitting. Every contradiction, and there are plenty when dealing with aero, are answered.

Name one pro that has gone this far. I hope he shares many of the details.

They are fascinating and educational.

For the record, I asked if I could post that pic, without hesitation "sure, I have nothing to hide". But I respect the data is his, so I tread the line carefully.

At this point in Lionel's career being primarily an influencer, he needs to be pumping out 1-2 videos a week minimum. If his current guy can't do it, he should put someone on salary that can. Doesn't have to be fancy either. With Lionel, you just need to push record and let him go.

You say he's focused and I have no reason to question that. But you have to wonder if his* obsessive nature will lead him astray once again when early fatigue takes over.

(unless it's just the nature of the person he tries to represent on social media)

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

honestly, i assumed that many of them do this on the pointy end. on the men's draw, sebi was famously meticulous about his bike setup and constantly refining his position and hardware. jan's just had canyon making him custom frames. blu and iden were flying over to taiwan for a while to spend time at Giant/cadex HQ. laidlow posts videos of his velodrome testing, as did joe skipper (who had various bespoke fairings/bottle holders built for him). kanute seems to be in the wind tunnel annually and has experimented with different hand positions and custom extensions, etc. magnus seems really meticulous and had that custom dropper post built for nice. wurf of course has the whole might of a pro team behind him.

i like lionel and am glad he's taking this part of his racing seriously, but i'm not sure i'd say he's uniquely serious about it. i'm far from an expert here, and happy to be wrong. so if you've got other details i'm all ears.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

You are right that many of them do proper testing and due diligence and if you look at the investment over many years it is significant.

I guess I am impressed by how much Lionel has done this year and his commitment to it. At the end it will be probably 9 days road testing, 2 tunnel trips, a velodrome trip, racing with a device and many aero test long rides plus race analysis. I will ask around but I suspect if you ask you wouldn't find too many that did 12 days in the last year. But maybe a guy like Kienle did more than 12 days over a longer period of time.

And I am putting all this stuff together in a report and I admit I am overwhelmed by the amount of data. I guess deep down I'm a Lionel fan boy :-)

There is a delicious irony in the Keyboard warriors comment.