Let me just preface this post. I am not a client of Mitch Gold, nor does he provide me with training programs.
I have a background of many years of triathlon (21 to be precise). Lots of volume in these legs in all sports (read big base).
I formulate pretty well my own stuff based on what fits in with my life, placing key workouts leadiing up to major event, while cramming in all the other stuff when/if it works out with the rest of my life.
I thought I had tried every approach to Ironman training in the book. Low volume, High volume, intensity on the bike, run intervals, the 20K per week swim program, 600K bike weeks, run focused weeks etc etc etc.
Earlier this year, I sought advice from a number of people on how to nail my Ironman run split. After lots of advice from a variety of pundits, I got back everything I had previously tried, like 3 hour long runs, big run volume, threshold run intervals, short bricks of long rides, run focus weeks etc etc etc.
Mitch Gold (http://www.counterpartcoaching.com/) piped in saying that if I wanted to run like a marathoner off the bike, I needed to train like a marathoner WHILE doing Ironman bike and swim training. The concept of the run focus week, while allowing breakthroughs in the off season, did not provide enough Ironman specific simulation during the build (ie unloading swim and bike volume)
He suggested that I keep up big volume on the swim and bike, and while doing that, do one longer run per week (2 hours was sufficient), but also do lots of shorter runs ranging from 50 min to 80 min to keep up my run frequency. I also needed to run at 7.5 to 8 min per mile which was my desired Ironman run pace for all my runs...no sandbagging, but no need to hammer either. By running 6-8 times per week, I could keep my run volume up, while running at a reasonable pace, all the while doing the swim and bike training.
Quoting Mitch:
"...I took the liberty of assuming that the next logical question would be: If not intervals, than what or how do you get faster? I responded with frequency, volume, duration and consistency, which in turn builds strength, durability and economy in running.
To answer one of your questions: I prefer to keep the weeks balanced rather than intentional reduce the cycling and swimming just so you can run more. This might mean re-thinking what a balanced week looks like; I've always emphasized the run.
What is "needed to pull off that "crème de la crème" sub 3:30 Ironman run split". I think it takes more than 3-4x per week and 4 hrs of running, especially when one of those runs is your weekly long run of 2 hrs (and a few other runs of 30 - 40 min). It takes more than 12 weeks to build a solid running program. I picked those numbers because it seems like that's what most people are doing to prepare for IM; Most people don't run to their potential at IM.
I think for most people to run to their potential at IM they need to change the way they look at their running program. Most will need to run 5x at a minimum; many of the bigger weeks should include 6 or 7 runs. The duration of the runs should build to between :50 - 1:20 so the weekly volume might be as high as 7 or 8 hrs. Long runs are not required every week. Too many people get a false sense of security from their long run and use it to beef up their weekly volume so they don't have to run so often. But when your frequency is lacking you'll feel it during an IM.
I believe strongly in this protocol. I've had the pleasure of seeing my IM marathon time improve every single time (save one) over the last 7 years. Almost every athlete I work with pr'd last year including a 9:53 first time IM with a 3:23 run and Lori Travis running the 3rd fastest in ag (3:38) run split in Kona."
At an intuitive level this made a lot of sense. I'd be doing lots of runs, exactly in the state (or close to the state) that I would experience in Ironman...with lots of swimming in my upper body and biking in my legs.
Over the course of May and June, I ended up with a bunch of weeks in the 85K-100K range.
Fast forward to Ironman Lake Placid on Jul 23rd. I did everything to put myself in a position to run sub 3:30 out of T2 pacing the swim and bike very conservatively...except I self sabotaged like many others, mismanaging my nutrition. Despite being on a bloated stomach and zero energy, I was still going along OK. By mile 10, I felt like my second loop was heading towards a 2:30+ split. Then my stomach settled, and as soon as I got blood sugar into my body, I had the legs to RUN properly again. In 12 previous Ironmans, when things fell apart, I never had the legs to bounce back.
Anyway, I ended up running the last 10 miles at 8 - 7:30 pace just like all those short training runs. While my final run time was 3:42, I closed the race in a solid way.
No long runs over 2 hours, no intervals, but lots of short stuff on top of bike and swim training. It worked. I did an Ironman PB of 10:23 at age of 40, and I qualified for Hawaii
I swear by this approach. Best part is that you never feel fried in training, and you don't really have to find big blocks of time to get your run training in. 30 min here, 40 min there, 50 min elsewhere, 20 min off the bike etc etc etc and you suddenly have a big volume run week. I took the liberty of modifying Mitch's 50-80 range to 20-80 :-).
It worked (at least for me).
Thanks Mitch...see you in Kona, I'm going to use the same framework in September.
Dev
I have a background of many years of triathlon (21 to be precise). Lots of volume in these legs in all sports (read big base).
I formulate pretty well my own stuff based on what fits in with my life, placing key workouts leadiing up to major event, while cramming in all the other stuff when/if it works out with the rest of my life.
I thought I had tried every approach to Ironman training in the book. Low volume, High volume, intensity on the bike, run intervals, the 20K per week swim program, 600K bike weeks, run focused weeks etc etc etc.
Earlier this year, I sought advice from a number of people on how to nail my Ironman run split. After lots of advice from a variety of pundits, I got back everything I had previously tried, like 3 hour long runs, big run volume, threshold run intervals, short bricks of long rides, run focus weeks etc etc etc.
Mitch Gold (http://www.counterpartcoaching.com/) piped in saying that if I wanted to run like a marathoner off the bike, I needed to train like a marathoner WHILE doing Ironman bike and swim training. The concept of the run focus week, while allowing breakthroughs in the off season, did not provide enough Ironman specific simulation during the build (ie unloading swim and bike volume)
He suggested that I keep up big volume on the swim and bike, and while doing that, do one longer run per week (2 hours was sufficient), but also do lots of shorter runs ranging from 50 min to 80 min to keep up my run frequency. I also needed to run at 7.5 to 8 min per mile which was my desired Ironman run pace for all my runs...no sandbagging, but no need to hammer either. By running 6-8 times per week, I could keep my run volume up, while running at a reasonable pace, all the while doing the swim and bike training.
Quoting Mitch:
"...I took the liberty of assuming that the next logical question would be: If not intervals, than what or how do you get faster? I responded with frequency, volume, duration and consistency, which in turn builds strength, durability and economy in running.
To answer one of your questions: I prefer to keep the weeks balanced rather than intentional reduce the cycling and swimming just so you can run more. This might mean re-thinking what a balanced week looks like; I've always emphasized the run.
What is "needed to pull off that "crème de la crème" sub 3:30 Ironman run split". I think it takes more than 3-4x per week and 4 hrs of running, especially when one of those runs is your weekly long run of 2 hrs (and a few other runs of 30 - 40 min). It takes more than 12 weeks to build a solid running program. I picked those numbers because it seems like that's what most people are doing to prepare for IM; Most people don't run to their potential at IM.
I think for most people to run to their potential at IM they need to change the way they look at their running program. Most will need to run 5x at a minimum; many of the bigger weeks should include 6 or 7 runs. The duration of the runs should build to between :50 - 1:20 so the weekly volume might be as high as 7 or 8 hrs. Long runs are not required every week. Too many people get a false sense of security from their long run and use it to beef up their weekly volume so they don't have to run so often. But when your frequency is lacking you'll feel it during an IM.
I believe strongly in this protocol. I've had the pleasure of seeing my IM marathon time improve every single time (save one) over the last 7 years. Almost every athlete I work with pr'd last year including a 9:53 first time IM with a 3:23 run and Lori Travis running the 3rd fastest in ag (3:38) run split in Kona."
At an intuitive level this made a lot of sense. I'd be doing lots of runs, exactly in the state (or close to the state) that I would experience in Ironman...with lots of swimming in my upper body and biking in my legs.
Over the course of May and June, I ended up with a bunch of weeks in the 85K-100K range.
Fast forward to Ironman Lake Placid on Jul 23rd. I did everything to put myself in a position to run sub 3:30 out of T2 pacing the swim and bike very conservatively...except I self sabotaged like many others, mismanaging my nutrition. Despite being on a bloated stomach and zero energy, I was still going along OK. By mile 10, I felt like my second loop was heading towards a 2:30+ split. Then my stomach settled, and as soon as I got blood sugar into my body, I had the legs to RUN properly again. In 12 previous Ironmans, when things fell apart, I never had the legs to bounce back.
Anyway, I ended up running the last 10 miles at 8 - 7:30 pace just like all those short training runs. While my final run time was 3:42, I closed the race in a solid way.
No long runs over 2 hours, no intervals, but lots of short stuff on top of bike and swim training. It worked. I did an Ironman PB of 10:23 at age of 40, and I qualified for Hawaii
I swear by this approach. Best part is that you never feel fried in training, and you don't really have to find big blocks of time to get your run training in. 30 min here, 40 min there, 50 min elsewhere, 20 min off the bike etc etc etc and you suddenly have a big volume run week. I took the liberty of modifying Mitch's 50-80 range to 20-80 :-).
It worked (at least for me).
Thanks Mitch...see you in Kona, I'm going to use the same framework in September.
Dev
Last edited by:
devashish paul: Aug 2, 06 19:12