Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three

Mar 10, 21 16:58

Post #1 of 21 (3159 views)

So, I breathe every two strokes but I work both sides in the pool. That is, I swim one length turning right, and left on the way back, etc. So I work both and technically I can pick either side depending on open water conditions, however I probably prefer breathing to my left side. I am thinking of working on changing that to breathe every three strokes and see if it produces any speed improvements. I am a late bloomer swimmer, taught myself (utube, etc) in my early 50s, average around 2:05/100m. I am thinking that keeping my head in the water longer may help with limiting drag, etc and maybe improve my speed.

For the record I have two other silly reasons to try to change.
1. For whatever reason, my Garmin F6X Pro, with swim style detection on, consistently detects me swimming freestyle when I breathe to the right and breast stroke when I breathe to the left (I swim freestyle in both). I dont care much about this but curious as to why.
2. For whatever reason, my Garmin F6X Pro maintains good GPS signal when I breathe to the right in OWS and loses GPS signal (completely) when I breathe to the left. I assume this is due to minor asymmetry in ratio of hands out of water (gps can be acquired) vs time spent with hand in water.

So, for the various reasons I want to practice breathing every 3 strokes to see what it would do to my swim time, efficiency, etc and how it may or may not affect items 1 and 2 above.

What is the opinion of the group here on every 2 vs every 3 and any other input welcome.

Thanks.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 17:10

Post #2 of 21 (3148 views)

I breathe on every stroke, so I can't help, sorry.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 17:13

Post #3 of 21 (3145 views)

If you breath less, then you will swim slower. If you want to alternate breath, then take the extra breath as a double one. By breathing more, you will go faster. About the only race where limiting the amount you can breath makes a difference is the 50, possibly the 100. But even in the 100, top guys are breathing every stroke because an early O2 deficit matters in overall time.

Search the Gary Hall threads here for what I'm talking about, should be some good video of the technique too.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 17:54

Post #4 of 21 (3102 views)

I think you're doing it fine. Know how to breathe on both sides but just breathe ever other on the side your comfortable with. More oxygen is always better for swimming. I just happened to be watching some of Katie Ledecky's old races last night and even in the 200, she's breathing every other stroke for the most part.

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Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 19:04

Post #5 of 21 (3010 views)

I need to see some video of breathing on every stroke. I can't breathe right, left, right, left, right...

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 19:09

Post #6 of 21 (3006 views)

just breath every 2 strokes like you're doing and mix in some sighting drills where you lift your head up and look to the front. practice timing that breath.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 19:21

Post #7 of 21 (2986 views)

jaretj wrote:

I need to see some video of breathing on every stroke. I can't breathe right, left, right, left, right...

To me, "breathe every stroke" means I breathe to my left side every time that arm comes around.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 19:30

Post #8 of 21 (2973 views)

I breathe whenever I need a breath. Sometimes it’s every stroke, sometimes 2, sometimes 3, sometimes 4, sometimes not at all..

It’s a trade off. You can swim harder, for a longer period, with more O2, but, you might be less streamlined.

Most of the top male distance swimmers breathe 2. The top women are a mixed bag, some 2, some 3. The men, thanks to larger muscle mass, can process more oxygen so need to exchange more, at least that’s my working hypothesis.

You aren’t a top male or female swimmer, so find what works best for you. Experiment with it, the clock doesn’t lie. If it’s faster, then it’s faster

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Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 20:29

Post #9 of 21 (2937 views)

I have found when doing intervals, a breath every two strokes. Then when doing longer sets, ( over 200 m ) a breathe every three ( bilateral breathing ) with this training I can maintain a 1500 m/ 28 minute pace quite handily. When I have to kick up the pace ( passing or getting better position ) then go to two breaths, get it under control and back to bilateral. When you mention “ streamlining “ something to work on that has helped me improve my swim times ( 34:00 / 70.3 swim.....at age 68 ) was to make sure you aren’t lifting your head to breath. Make sure you rotate your head and upper body so your face is getting air near your shoulder. As a marker, I try to make sure my lower eye doesn’t totally break the surface of the water. This rotation really helps keep my head down and keeps my hips and feet up.
On another unrelated bilateral breathing note is that is how I run also. Puts the wear and tear on the legs, feet and hips evenly, rather than always pushing off on the same foot as you take a breath. Yes, this goes out the window with intervals and hills!
Just my $0.02 worth....or actually more like $0.014 ....I’m Canadian.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 22:21

Post #10 of 21 (2892 views)

In my 50's I changed from breathing every 2nd stroke to every 3rd. I swim straighter when breathing every 3rd. I can also sight better breathing every 3rd. It has also eliminated the neck pain I used to get.
During a race I will mainly breath every 3rd. I will quite often breath every 2nd if I feel short of breath.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 23:43

Post #11 of 21 (2855 views)

I was taught originally to breath every 3 strokes and then I went to a Swim Smooth workshop and Coach Julian asked me why I was breathing that way and my response was 'because I was told told to' and he told me try breathing every two and that made swimming so much easier and now I breath every two or breath when I want to and swimming is much more comfortable. :) Do what suits you is my advice.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 10, 21 23:52

Post #12 of 21 (2851 views)

I'm similar pace to you and swim every three strokes, which feels more efficient to me and I can get through my races in one piece. I know the argument is that the more O2 I get, the faster I go, but I'm never out of breath after a swim. I guess that means I'm not trying hard enough?

My race site: https://racesandplaces.wixsite.com/racesandplaces

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 11, 21 4:55

Post #13 of 21 (2758 views)

One thing I learned very early in life and then re-learned when I started swimming was how much I like oxygen. I was taught in swimming that bilateral swimming was a must. But when I learned that I could go faster by breathing every cycle, I dropped bilateral like a lead balloon. Now, having said that, I believe it's important to have the skill to breathe on both sides. You never know when you're going to need it (EX: Swimming next to the water aerobic class when in full bounce mode or trying to breathe into a cresting wave in OW). Practice yourself some 2:3 breathing. But, in practice, do the thing that makes you happiest/ fastest for a vast majority of your swimming.

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Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Mar 11, 21 9:12

Post #14 of 21 (2628 views)

I'm replying to JasoninHalifax (if there's time or it's appropriate for a reply) :-)

Is there any benefit -- in terms of building bi-lateral strength or coordination -- to *practicing* breathing on odd strokes?

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [ In reply to ]

Mar 11, 21 9:21

Post #15 of 21 (2618 views)

I've landed on 2/3 breathing. Best of both worlds - lets you work on bi-lateral breathing and keeps plenty of air in your lungs. I'll breathe twice on the right (2), then switch sides (3) and do twice on the left, repeat.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [apmoss] [ In reply to ]

Mar 11, 21 9:24

Post #16 of 21 (2612 views)

apmoss wrote:

I'm replying to JasoninHalifax (if there's time or it's appropriate for a reply) :-)

Is there any benefit -- in terms of building bi-lateral strength or coordination -- to *practicing* breathing on odd strokes?

I think so. Probably not so much in strength, but coordination. I can't back that up with studies or anything, but in my experience, the more you practice something the easier and more natural it becomes.

digging back in the memory vault here, I haven't been able to swim for about a year now. Well, I could, but it requires booking lanes, never having a consistent time/day, etc. I can't realistically make that work with 2 young kids in the house. thanks COVID. But... I always used to be an exclusively right side breather. Still am, mostly. But, I did make an effort to start breathing on the left, and now, for pull sets, I'm a left or bilateral breather, and right side for regular swimming. I suspect it's something to do with an asymmetric kick, but I'd have to get back in the water with a GoPro to verify that.

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Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 11, 21 9:42

Post #17 of 21 (2593 views)

Two points:
If your watch detects uneven stroke patterns, that’s your bigger problem.
Your 25 times r vs l probably differ significantly.

Breathing every third is great for learning to even your stroke and kick (a snorkel would be better).

In open water it’s invaluable to be able to breath every third to sight or get air without breaking stroke. In the pool not so much.

Off course, what do I know.
.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Mar 11, 21 9:44

Post #18 of 21 (2588 views)

Issues with your Garmin aside, I thinks it's a good idea to train for less oxygen occasionally.... Competitive swimmers will often do work with extended breathing patterns like every 5th, 7th, or longer, or something like 50's where you only get 1 or 2 breaths.

I think it's important to be able to breathe to either side, but when racing you want all the oxygen you can get. I know the Gary Hall Sr threads push for 2-1 alternating, to me that's too much switching, I prefer a 2-2-1 cycle that gives me 10 strokes for the full rotation and in open water means I can sight at the beginning of each 10-stroke cycle if needed (I only ever sight when breathing to my right).

If your breathing mechanics are sound, you shouldn't be losing speed by breathing more often. Most folks do, though, and even I know I tilt my head a little differently when breathing left or right, due to biomechanics (meaning different flexibility in my neck). You can test out breathing every 2, 3, 4, 5, for shorter distances at an effort you are comfortable with and see if you notice a time difference. You can even get a snorkel and then not have to turn to breathe as a control.

If you find that there are big differences in your time for a 50 (so oxygen debt doesn't accumulate much), when using the snorkel vs some of the breathing patterns, or a big difference between breathing every 2 and every 5, you probably need to work on your mechanics/technique before worrying about your actual breathing pattern.

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Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]

Jun 11, 22 3:46

Post #19 of 21 (1943 views)

I’m 49, also a terrible swimmer (2:05-2:10/100m) and also want to try bilateral breathing during races. I seem to be faster with bilateral in the pool (1:50-1:55). I’ll switch to unilateral when I fatigue or it gets choppy in OW. I definitely swim straighter and sight better with bilateral too.

Tomorrow will be the first time I try bilateral in a race and it’s a 70.3. Just curious to see if anyone else does this. It seems to be something that people 50 and over seem more apt to do.

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 22 2:51

Post #20 of 21 (1591 views)

See Monty's post below. I didn't change my breathing pattern and start to regularly breathe on "every" stroke until I was 50+ years old after 40 years of swimming. And I was always a decent swimmer. At the pace you swim you could certainly learn to breathe on both sides including the breathe on the Left then breathe immediately on the Right technique.
Now I will often use a pattern of breathe 2x on the Right, then 1x on the Left 3 strokes later, then back to 2x on the Right.
My engine is certainly not as big as it used to be! and the extra oxygen inhaled when trying to balance out the rotation of my stroke evenly to both sides is really helpful! :-)
Cheers from NZ, Scott

Re: Swimming - Breathe every two strokes vs three [avikoren1] [ In reply to ]

Jun 13, 22 5:20

Post #21 of 21 (1490 views)

I think the solution to your problem is to just swim butterfly. You can sight on every stroke if you want, or every other. There’s no assymetry in your stroke because you can feel
If your hands enter the water hat the same time. Breathing and sighting occur at the same time, and so it’s more efficient. Additionally, you won’t be pestered by other swimmers in the water bumping you during the race, you will be the the master of your domain. And, you will be an absolute beast once you master the 4200yd fly.

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