I'm not that great either, but I 400m in 7 min. is not that bad. If you keep doing (or start doing) drills and yards then you'll be able to hold form longer. I'd go straight to a swim coach/masters and get the form down early on.

How often do you swim? What distance are you training for?

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Oly's are what I am training for so 1500m swim...my best time for a 1500 is 31:00. I train two times a week. I am looking to up it in the next few weeks if I can. I usually swim between 2500 and 3000 m in a workout.

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"One thing I have found there are just two ways to go
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow"- Robert Earlk Keen Jr.

Mike--How about a straightforward upper body weight workout for swimming. I need to get up to a comfortable 2.4 miles in a wetsuit? Maybe four machines--I am already training 15 hours a week, and adding stuff is hard--it has to payoff well. I'm a new swimmer. I work with a coach, but she is pure swimming, not triathlon oriented. She yells at me to "pull harder", but I'm giving it what I've got. The harder I pull, the more out-of-breather I get. A lot of my pool effort goes into staying horizontal. I am swimming sets, etc, for 3 hours a week, different lengths, speeds, etc. (about 2100 yards each WO). This includes an ocean swim of about 1.5 miles with wetsuit.

FOUR MACHINES--that's your limit. Lots of reps, or lots of resistance?

Greg

First of all, that's about how fast I go, then, I get out in a lake, and do a 10-11 minute swim, in tri sprint. Well, there's a few new fiends this year, fatter than me, all of which look like the second coming of "Wolfman," so I'm about 3rd to last. Hope springs eternal.

So, you're about an 8 minute or so plus, 500 yarder in a sprint, and, granted, you can't translate the pool to the open water, without factoring in the Karate and Judo factor, scratching, kicking, grabbing, and utter freak out nature of getting back hammered, and beat down, in an open water swim, but still, not bad.

I'm guessing, if you did five or six 100 meter intervals, you would hold 1:40 - 1:50?

I think I can help you out, before WebSwim gets here to give you some solid information.

They will say, do drills, do intervals which descend. Shorten your rest!. Go faster, longer! Put yourself into as much discomfort in the water, as soon as possible, AS LONG AS POSSIBLE!

However, to get you over this gap, temporarily, sort of stop gap, what you want to do, is do that 500 meters again. Except this time, what you want to do is drink 4 red bulls about thirty minutes before, and take a shot of primatene mist, a bronchodialator.

Then hammer it hard.

See what happens.

So you're swimming 400m well and the other 2100-2600m poorly?

Wow, you're the exact opposite to me. My form gets better as I finish the middle 1/3 of my 1.5km workout. Most likely you're swimming too hard for the level of conditioning in your upper body & core. I'd also increase frequency if possible, and decrease duration if time doesn't permit. Coaching is very important!

FWIW, you are definitely on your way to being a fish. I'm certainly less of a fish than you. My 400m time is only about 11min right now.

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Proud member of Team Tooth Pick (TTP): like a leaf in the wind.

I can maintain decent form for most of a workout if I get some rest between, it's just after swimming them straight I get tired, really tired.

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"One thing I have found there are just two ways to go
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow"- Robert Earlk Keen Jr.

just concentrate on trying to hold yr stroke together

Ok - first off to swim faster you need two things: better form and more consistency. Anything less then 3x per week and you are maintaining, not improving - and that is straight from Jack Daniels - and I think he is right on the money. So - get yourself in the pool 3-4x per week - that alone will help.

Next, look into a local swim coach that can help your swim form, and I don't mean a TI coach, a real live swim coach of a swim team. Nothing personal against TI but if you want to swim faster, you need to swim faster, and doing drills will only help you slightly. More thoughts on this in my last newsletter - you can check out the article here: http://www.d3multisport.com/...cles/swimvolume.html

As for sample workouts: 1x per week: 300 w/u - then 20x50 on 15" rest to start with. Focus on form, and keeping the same pace. Build this set to 30-40 x50 - it will help with endurance and more importantly keeping your pacing and form in tact.

1x per week: Long sets - after a 400-500 warm up - swim as many 500s as you can - build up to 4-5 of these. Rest is 20 seconds. Think about the even pacing and keeping each 100 the same. Think long strokes and a strong pull (long and strong) - this will build endurance.

1x per week: middle distance sets: 200-300s - do these on short rest - max of 10 seconds. Focus on form, keeping the stroke in tact and it HAS TO HURT a bit - maybe the hardest set to do.

I think that should help you - let me know if you need more, happy to help.

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

Greg - why do you think you need strength workouts? Just curious...

My advice to get better at swimming in a wetsuit for 2.4 miles - well it would be to swim in the wetsuit at least 1 workout per week - in the pool, lake whatever. I have my athletes do this as they prepare for IM - you need to train like you race. I don't think weights will help you - but I will give you what I think is important there too:

First off - if you don't have a swim background - then your limiter is more then likely your swim technique - so for dry land work I highly reccommend following Gordo's protocol on the swim cords. I do ONLY the straight pull backs, they take 10-12 minutes and they are very effective. The other part of your triathlon game I would work on would be core strength. I have 3 solid routines on my site that you could use: Look on the right hand side: http://www.d3multisport.com/articles.html

Lastly if you want 4 exercises for swimming - I would go with lat pull down, seated rows, tricep extensions, and dips. They will cover most of the muscles in your upper body. How far out is your race - in terms of reps - if you have plenty of time (IMFL) then high reps - 30 - and 3 sets. When you can do 30 reps, move to heavier weight for 8-10 workouts - 5-8 reps, 3-5 sets - pretty much the Friel protocol but I think it's good for strength. If you are in the Prep lifting phase I have a completely different opinion then Friel, but that is another thread for another day. Let me know if you have any more questions, happy to help.

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

I would look into a masters program as mentioned above. If there is not one in your area I would take a look at the total immersion, swim power or other similar program.

The key is to hold your form. When your form falls, stop the workout or drill because the rest of the yardage will be re-enforcing bad technique. I would stick to drill work if your schedule permits. Start by a nice easy warm-up maybe 250-400 yards. Then kind of a break in set of maybe 5-6 50's holding your form. Then do some drills. I find the best way to do the drills, perhaps 10 x 50, is to drill down and stroke back. That is say fingertip drill for 25 and swim back focusing on your recovery. After a set of drills, throw in a longer set. Try your 400 but slow down and focus on your form. It does not matter how long it takes because you are doing two things: working on technique and endurance for that technique. Do some more drills and perhaps another set of 200-600. Then cool down 200.

If you can find someone to analyze your stroke and give you some pointers that would be excellent.

Hope this helps,

Horatio

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Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever.
-Napoleon Bonaparte

Mike--Thanks. I have read your article before. It confirmed somewhat I had decided to do on my own--About three months ago, when I couldn't get across the pool without hyperventilating, I got a wetsuit and just started ocean swimming in a wetsuit with my GF and my son on his surfboard for rescue/comfort. Before long, my breathing started to work, and I could make the mile without stopping. The seas had been very rough here in South Florida, so swimming was more like rough sex. I was encouraged to go back to the pool because I had developed a very one-sided stroke, based on getting my head out for air over the rough water and timing the waves. I managed a 1.2 miles fresh water swim, no wetsuits, in June, as part of a half-iron. I didn't want to be that tired when I get out of the IMFL swim, so I started with the coach. The coach is a Masters Program Coach, and recommenced by just about everybody we have asked, including the ocean lifeguards. I do incorporate the drills into the warm up and cool down so I don't get bored with the process. The only one she really asks is four kick, three stroke, which puts me underwater, because I sink so easily, but I do them. I do the alternate side breathing and every other right side stroke breathing, with a pull bouy during the warm-up/cool-down, so I don't have to expend so much O2 on staying level, so I can take my arms to exhaustion--otherwise, my aerobic system is exhausted, and my arms have not had a workout. That's why I was asking about a weight workout to build up what I perceive as the limiter or my arm/back strength.

Any suggestions.

No matter what else you do. Don't swim any farther than you can really hold your technique and rhythm together. Do more sets of shorter yardage. Lots of 25's 50's and 100's, most days. When you go longer, go easy enough to keep it together the whole time. Stop if you get out of sync. Rest briefly, think what you're going to do and start again.

(I personally like TI, but it's not for everyone. It does help many swimmers at least get into better position and start using their 'core' for power and expend less effort on the swim.)

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Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Your technique failing after 400m is purely down to conditioning. If you have technique in the first place, then the only reason you start getting sloppy is because you're getting tired.

I haven't been swimming regularly for a couple of years now, and i find that I can hold about a 1:30/100m pace, but after 3-400m I start slowing down. Once I get some more meters under my belt the conditioning will come back and distance will cease to be an issue.

The solution to your problems? Mike's got it all laid out in his responses - intervals & more sessions.

Greg

Congrats on making such nice progress! That is awesome. With regard to breathing, I like to see swimmers/triathletes breath to both sides - that way they get a better balance and learn to breath to either side especially when the surf gets rough - the other thing about breathing is that when you turn to breath, one goggle should be in the water at all times - try that.

I would have a set of 600 yards every time you get in the pool - not in the warm up - that is specifically drills. That article I wrote has some ideas in there. Typically my swim sets are warm up, main set, drill set, pull set, and then one last shorter main set - this set when done fatigued is hard. I try to swim fast at the end of a long swim, it seems to be helping.

It sounds like a balance issue more then anything - are you pressing your T into the pool (TI lingo)? This is a major issue with many triathletes- they lift their head to breath and that throws everything off. Your hips sink, your legs sink etc. I would work on balance, getting the bi-lateral breathing down, and learning to breath with one goggle in the water at all time, this will help you keep your head down...I really can't help you more unless I see you swim.

I hope this helps and gives you a few ideas...

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

hmm i dunno if u should stop swimming when u feel your form failing. id be inclined to try and hold yr form together or push harder.