Bump...becasue I'm curious too.

I stretch when I lift. But I'm pretty bad about stretching after biking or running. Especially the long ones, when the family/chores/life is waiting.

I'm considering flexible warrior, just so I force myself to dedicate the time.

Stretching... Almost never
Im at my 3rd week at 80 mpw of running and I'll be at 100 pretty soon

Something my team never does. I have never been injured. I don't think it is important at all. Some people say it will help increase stride but I have a fast turn over so I dont need a long stide.

I will stretch a little when outdoor comes along because I run the steeplechase. Being fexlible will help a little with form, but form is not whats important, it matters how fast I can run between the barriers.

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USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

Amazes me how many people ignore stretching. I have a stretch routine that I do almost every day and have been for about thirty years. 56 yrs old and better flexibility than lot of 20/30's. I may not be fast but at least I'm flexible.:-)

A good place to start is the book "Stretching"by Bob Anderson. It's the bible on the subject and now in it's umpteenth edition. I bought the original edition probably 25 yrs ago.

I agree, Very few in my training circle give it much time.

I have a martial arts background and should spend much more time than I do. Like you I am very flexible. I have been out of martial arts for 10 years.....My 15 yr old son is very active in Tae Kwon Do. One night I sparred with his Instructor who was quite suprised that I could lay a foot up along side of his head.

Re: the injury prevention. I think most physioogist would agree that for the most part stretching probably offers little in injury prevention but in re: to form and economy there are great gains that could be had.

How much time should someone dedicate to stretching?

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Hurry Up Every Chance You Get

(formerly LuctorEtEmergo)

"How much time should someone dedicate to stretching? "

Don't have a scientifc answer but I have a fifteen minute routine that I try to do nightly. I usually hold every stretch about fifteen seconds and do each stretch two or three seperate times.

"Amazes me how many people ignore stretching"
Amazes me how many people do it. I've never read a study that showed stretching reduced injury, improved strength, or made someone faster.

"56 yrs old and better flexibility than lot of 20/30's. I may not be fast but at least I'm flexible.:-)"
But what has being flexible ever done for you? Well, other than made you a good "stretcher"

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

"I think most physioogist would agree that for the most part stretching probably offers little in injury prevention but in re: to form and economy there are great gains that could be had"
Can you point me to a study that was done where increased stretching led to better form and economy?

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

Ok, not a study.....and I don't have time to do the research else I would'nt have posted the qx here.

Excerpt from a training book

"When you combine a strong aerobic engine with good position you get speed. If you want to be an elite athlete, a commitment to a structured flexibility program such as yoga is essential. The fastest elite athletes in our sport have outstanding bike positions. To achieve this takes only time - not genetics, not hard miles, not volume. It is relatively free speed."

Going Long - Friel & Byrn

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Hurry Up Every Chance You Get

(formerly LuctorEtEmergo)

I have never been much of a stretcher, no pulled muscles etc.

However, I have started stretching post biking and running recently and it has had a major effect on, drum roll please, my swimming.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago and most responded with disbelief, but here it is.

I started swimming seriously about 18 months ago with a great coach and lots of improvement but could not get rid of a slight hip bend, causing my legs to drop. Lots of strengthening my butt and lower back failed to eliminate it. The difference in speed with and without a pull buoy was very significant.

To cut to the chase, I came to the conclusion that my hip flexors and maybe psoas muscles tighten enough from biking that they over power the back muscles and cause an imbalance.

Since I have started stretching, my speed differential with and without pull buoy has been reduced by 75% and everyone has commented on a clear improvement in my body position.

A side benefit is also that I am much less sore the day after a long ride or run.

Saying it doesn't make it true. It's also kind of odd to read that advice from a guy who has resisted an aggressive bike position his entire career, yet does an awful lot of stretching and yoga. If stretching made an aggressive position possible...

I will throw all humility aside and say that I have an aggressive bike position that is the equal of the best in the sport. In relation to my power output, almost nobody gets my bike splits. And I can hold that position all day long.

How flexible am I? I can't touch my toes on a bet.

If you have to be flexible to fit into a bike position, it's a bad bike position.

The stretched length requirement of any muscle is functionally determined. Stretching them any farther than that doesn't do anybody any good.

Studies of runners consistently show that those with the stiffest muscles run the fastest.

Some interesting studies have been done on this topic.

The Kapooka study ('A Randomised Trial of Pre-exercise Stretching for Prevention of Lower-Limb Injury', Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol. 32(2), pp. 271-277, 2000) (Kapooka is a hell hole in NSW where all Australian Army recruits do their basic training) had a very large sample size and showed that stretching does not reduce total injury levels. But, a later study (Effect of static stretching on prevention of injuries for military recruits, 2003, Amako) showed that stretching reduces the likelihood of muscle related injuries.

Note the distinction between 'total' and 'muscular.'

Further detail below:

From http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/stretching-exercises.html

But does stretching during a warm-up really cut an athlete's chances of getting hurt? To find out, researchers from the Kapooka Health Centre, the University of Sydney, and Charles Sturt University in Australia recently examined the effects of pre-exercise stretching on lower-limb injury over 11 weeks of training in 1538 subjects ranging in age from 17 to 35(2). This study was carried out with a particularly apt study group: army recruits undergoing basic training. Although army recruits are not necessarily elite athletes, they do undertake a rigidly controlled and strenuous programme of exercise during basic training, and they also sustain a high frequency of lower-limb injury(3). Thus, if stretching is really beneficial as an injury-preventer, one would expect to see its effects in a large group of military-service signees.

What the programme involved

The 1538 recruits were randomly divided into stretching (735 individuals) and non-stretching groups (803). The Australian researchers decided to utilise a stretching programme comparable to the type of routine employed by many athletes and thus settled on 20 seconds of stretching for each of six key lower-limb muscles or muscle groups (the gastrocnemius, soleus, hamstrings, quadriceps muscles, hip adductors, and hip flexors) during warm-up. The chosen form of muscle unkinking was static stretching, in which a limb or portion of a limb is moved to close to the limit of its range of motion and then held in this stretched position, without continuous motion or overall body movement. Static stretching carried out in 20-second dosages has been shown to be effective at increasing joint range of motion(4) and at reducing muscular resistance to applied stretch(5).

The static stretches were interspersed with jogging and side-stepping activity during the warm-ups; naturally, individuals in the control group performed only jogging and side-stepping, without a hint of static stretching. During the 11-week period, 40 actual workouts were completed by the recruits, adding up to 50 total hours of hard physical effort. The training was divided into route marching (10 hours), running (10.5 hours), obstacle-course workouts (12.5 hours), circuit training (7.5 hours), swimming (four hours), and battle training (5.5 hours).

The results
Over the course of the 11 weeks (and 60,000 total hours of training), 333 lower-limb injuries were recorded, 175 in the control group and 158 in the stretching recruits, which represented an overall injury rate of 5.5 injuries per 1000 hours of training. The three most common injuries were patellofemoral pain (67 cases), tibial stress fractures (56), and ankle sprains (46). As it turned out, stretching during warm-up had no statistically significant effect on the risk of injury, either for soft-tissue problems or bony disorders. Height and weight of the military personnel were also non-factors when it came to predicting injury.

Although pre-exercise stretching was totally unimportant from an injury standpoint, other easy-to-determine factors actually did a decent job of prognosticating who would get hurt. For example, age was a good predictor of injury (the older the athlete, the higher the injury frequency), and even a non-training factor such as date of enlistment worked better than pre-workout stretching in terms of injury prediction (recruits who enlisted later in the year were more than twice as likely to get hurt, compared with those who enlisted in January, February, or March). In addition, 20-metre shuttle-run time was an outstanding predictor (the faster the time, the lower the risk of injury), a relationship which suggested that overall fitness, not the presence or absence of pre-workout stretching had the paramount influence on injury occurrence (a simple test like the 20-metre shuttle run is considered to be a reliable fitness assessment, since it can be used to accurately predict VO2max and running capacity)

What we do know is that static stretching before exercise can cause a muscle belly to lose its contractibility, therefore decreasing explosiveness. This can lead to a decrease in performance.

But before you decide to cut out all stretching, you have to take into consideration your individual muscoskeletal needs. This can be done by a good physical therapist or orthopedic doctor.

If the athlete falls in normal range of motion (ROM) in all joints, then he or she may not have to worry about stretching. But if they have abnormal ROM, this could possibly lead to further muscoskeletal imbalances. This is when it must be determined if stretching the particular joint will increase ROM, without out causing further imbalances.

All my athletes are screened by a local physical therapist. They are tested for any structural imbalance (strength and flexibility related) that may cause a decrease in performance or be a pre cursor to injury. I highly recommend every take a similar approach.

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Jason Kilderry
ETA Coach, LLC
http://www.etacoach.com

[reply][quote]

I will throw all humility aside and say that I have an aggressive bike position that is the equal of the best in the sport. In relation to my power output, almost nobody gets my bike splits. And I can hold that position all day long.

How flexible am I? I can't touch my toes on a bet.

[/reply]

Yes but if this question is in relation to all 3 sports in triathlon would your answer be different? What decent swimmer does not stretch? They all do. In swimming flexibility is paramount. Stroke length is a hugh part in going fast.

I agree with anything you say about bike fit and agree that an aggressive position has nothing to do with flexibility. A reasonable amount of core strength is needed but not flexibility.

A regular yoga practice may not make you fast but it may keep you in the sport longer. Yoga and or Pilates is better then simply stretching. Strength as well as flexibility is needed if not for sport then for a healthy body as you get older.

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Andrew

http://www.theyogapod.com

I stretch for a good 15 minutes after every single workout, that usually gets me to 45 minutes/1 hour a day, a few of my stretches are yoga poses i believe as ive had a few people make comments on them. I wouldnt know because i dont do yoga classes but it is something im interested in. I had a muscular imbalance a few years ago that a physical therapist pointed out and stretching was part of correcting that as another poster pointed out. From what ive read from top pros in our sport, they spend a good amount of time stretching(fwiw).

I do a yoga class twice a week, pretty much year round, and try to stretch my achilles/calf/hammies/quads after all runs or rides, and shoulders after all swims.

If I skip my achilles/calf routine for a week I definitely feel my calf muscles tightening. Before I did yoga I had endless hassles with hamstring/calf injuries on one leg....which, it turns out, has greatly less flexibility than the other side. Or had. Post yoga, things are evening up, and injury rate has dropped.

Sample of one, but seems to make a difference to me.

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kiwipat

per ardua ad astra

Derek


Congrats on getting that mileage in btw.

I am not qualified to state the benefits or disadvantages of stretching from an intellectual standpoint. I have though , been running for 10 years consistently , have completed some marathons and 3 IM's.

I was a lazy stretcher, up until September last year, when I started to really stiffen up. Standing up ( from rest ) would require 60-90 seconds of blood flow, before I could get into a walking rythym. At 41 , I was walking like an 80 year old more often than not. I could still run and cycle , but my range of motion was continually shrinking.

After pointless suffering and a miserable / painful run split, in a 70.3 , I went to the Sportsdoc. He diagnosed severe ITB inflammation ( both ) , strained soleus muscles ( both ) , and an inflammed patel (sic) in the left knee. He referred me to a physiotherapist , who started me on a thrice weekly ,90 min session of deep tissue work and lots of other fun and exciting work.
I was forced to STOP running entirely , for the first time ever , I sat back and reviewed the big picture of where I was in my athletic career and where I wanted to go.

Fast forward 4 months. I still go for physio once per week , but stretch following all of my workouts and ice as much as possible.
I ran a marathon one month ago ,4 mins off my PB on 6 weeks of limited training and will be attempting IM Malaysia in 45 days.

My point being , I had a similiar attitude that I was "immune" or didn't need to stretch.

I hope this enlightens you somewhat.

Terry

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"You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream" - Les Brown
"Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment" - Jim Rohn

"what has being flexible ever done for you? Well, other than made you a good "stretcher"


After doing it for thirty years, I'm absolutely convinced that stretching does help keep me injury free, despite of what some of the latest studies may claim, but that's just my opinion and not based on any double blinded clinial trials. Stretching cold just before an event is not a good idea however as it could actually cause an injury.

What stretching has been shown to do is increase joint range of motion. Although that may not be very important for cycling or running, it could be in other sports. Activities such as gymnastics for example.

It sounds like you're in your early twenties? Lets see what another 20 years of running and riding do to you. It's like your mother telling you to put sunscreen on when you are a kid. You never listen and wish you had when you get older.

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Andrew

http://www.theyogapod.com

This "journal" is about as close as it gets to being for laypersons. I do not consider their review articles to be top notch, but I used to use it as a starting place when writing research papers. Lots of resources to get going with.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/...000/08_00/shrier.htm

"After doing it for thirty years, I'm absolutely convinced that stretching does help keep me injury free"
You'd get along well with Frank Day. As long as it makes sense to you, to hell with facts and science! ;-)

"Stretching cold just before an event is not a good idea however as it could actually cause an injury"
True.

"What stretching has been shown to do is increase joint range of motion"
Lucky for me, as long as I feel my ROM is acceptable, I'm happy.

"Although that may not be very important for cycling or running, it could be in other sports. Activities such as gymnastics for example"
Maybe, but that's for another forum. ST doesn't usually use gymnastics as a reason to do or not do something in our training schedule

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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08

I Stretch after everything,
I stretch my legs (4 different stretches x 20 seconds per leg) after bike and run.
After a swim I will stretch my shoulders (about 4 stretches x 20 sec per shoulder).
After working out, I will do a full body routine, It only takes about 5 min tops to do a full body stretch, so what's the big deal.

Managed to find a review article:
Warm-Up and Stretching in the prevention of Muscular Injury, Sports Med 2007.
Does a good job of tying up a research on the positives of stretching.
Mainly talks about increased range of motion and injury prevention.

So articles out there do mention it helps and it doesn't.
My conclusion, take 3-5 minutes after a workout and stretch, jeez.

Here is a segment on stretching from my blog:
[Stretching and its beneficial effects.
3/11/2007
I used to do static stretching(holding a stretch for 5-10sec's), about 10 minutes into every run.
However have stopped doing the above static stretches. Am now following advice from coaches and scientific study which suggest static stretching before events can actually slow the muscles contractions down a bit. Now I do stretches using a swinging motion of legs and upper body(active/dynamic stretching). Actually noticed some of the All Black players doing this type of stretching in match warm-ups several years ago( before being advised about it). Recall many years ago debating these different types of stretching at rugby practices.
Anyway active stretches is enjoyable and less painful for me than static stretching.
Even read recently that some studies had shown stretching to be of no benefit ; exactly what context they were referring to I am not sure. To be honest scientific studies can get carried away with their own self promotion sometimes.
Whatever a scientific study might say, it is a certainty that flexibilty is required for many techniques required in sports(eg the shoulder movements in swimming). To increase/maintain ones flexibility will require some sort of stretching. Yoga definitely has the effect of increasing flexibility and yoga looks like it incorporates alot of stretching.
Also a muscle is made up of many fibres. Stretching the muscle fibres and the surrounding connective tissue allows the athlete to get an increased contraction and therefore enhanced performance(assuming it is active stretching, if it is before an event). That is, the total length of a stretched muscle is a result of the number of fibers stretched - the more fibers stretched, the more length developed by the muscle for a given stretch. More muscle length available for muscle contraction equals more power. ]

I continue on in more detail in my blog: http://www.triathlonshots.com/...manTrainingBlog.html


I do some stretching but not as much as I would like. Physiotherapists know all about the importance of stretching!

Some of the answers above have covered it really well but thought to add my 2 cents worth.

To perform at the top and stay there some stretching would be required unless you are very fortunate. Often men have problems with flexibility and reduced flexibilty can hinder performance in swim/bike/run.

If you look into it more and think about it there should start to be some consistency in the 'theories and practises' out there that you mentioned.

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http://www.TriathlonShots.com
Full event coverage of triathlon/ironman in photos.

...19 subjects performed a 40-minute lower extremity stretching routine three times a week for 10 weeks. Their subsequent performance was compared to a control group by measuring flexibility, power (via 20-m sprint, standing long jump, vertical jump), strength (knee flexion and knee extension one-repetition maximum [1RM]), and strengthendurance (number of repetitions at 60% of 1RM for both knee flexion and knee extension). The results showed that the stretching group had significant improvements for flexibility (18.1%), standing long jump (2.3%), vertical jump (6.7%), 20-m sprint (1.3%), knee flexion 1RM (15.3%), knee extension 1RM (32.4%), knee-flexion endurance (30.4%) and knee-extension endurance (28.5%)...

Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39(10):1825-31

(Excerpted from Peak Performance On Line)

I found it interesting that stretching is made a big part of every night at the camps that Sutton runs.