Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016

Oct 24, 16 19:34

Post #1 of 1286 (64943 views)

Been a while since I posted here but I noticed something in the results for Long Distance Worlds yesterday:

Elite Men Fastest Swim: Davide Giardini (10+ pro fastest swims) / Dylan Mcneice (Ex-ITU front pack swimmer) / Rafael Ribeiro Goncalves (Fastest AG swim at Kona 2013) - 00:56:47

Elite Woman Fastest Swim: Jodie Swallow (70.3 / ITU LD champ x2 / GB Olympian) - 01:03:31

F30-34 Age Group Fastest Swim: Amy Stretton - 00:55:29

From another thread about the swim course this weekend:

5430tri wrote:

The Pros swam the same course - 2 loops of a long rectangle; and, as such, they had to swim around many age group athletes - all over the place - on their second lap. The conditions were very hard: quite rough water, wavy, and very hard to sight. Most times were quite slow.

If those results are to be believed a F30-34 out swam the entire elite field including the front pack of rock-star swimmer elite men. This was over a multi-lap swim course which was not wet suit legal. Starting in the F30-34 wave she would have had to battle through people around both laps too, no clear water / straight lines for her.

A dig into Amy's background she has some pretty good but not faster than elite swim results and in December last year she swam a 41:12 to come out of the water in 681th place in a 70.3, this was a wet suit legal single lap race where the elite men took 22-23 minutes including Dylan McNeice (23:47). Bad day? Maybe? Or a more realistic representation of her swim time on a single lap course?

Note her other great swim time was at ITU Edmonton Grand Final 2014 where she swum just over 1 minute slower than the elite woman was also a 2 lap course....

This swim time put Amy in a position where she could lead wire to wire and claim an Age Group World Championship but something that swim time doesn't look right...

http://www.triathlon.org/...championships/299378

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chicks are like Voltron, the more you can get, the better it is." -Tucker

Last edited by: AlphaQ: Oct 24, 16 19:36

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 20:04

Post #2 of 1286 (64847 views)

How do they confirm everyone does two laps? Seems like she did half the swim / 1 lap only, given your historical swim example for her has her swimming roughly half the speed of elites.

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 20:15

Post #3 of 1286 (64819 views)

AlphaQ wrote:

Been a while since I posted here but I noticed something in the results for Long Distance Worlds yesterday:

Elite Men Fastest Swim: Davide Giardini (10+ pro fastest swims) / Dylan Mcneice (Ex-ITU front pack swimmer) / Rafael Ribeiro Goncalves (Fastest AG swim at Kona 2013) - 00:56:47

Elite Woman Fastest Swim: Jodie Swallow (70.3 / ITU LD champ x2 / GB Olympian) - 01:03:31

F30-34 Age Group Fastest Swim: Amy Stretton - 00:55:29

From another thread about the swim course this weekend:

5430tri wrote:

The Pros swam the same course - 2 loops of a long rectangle; and, as such, they had to swim around many age group athletes - all over the place - on their second lap. The conditions were very hard: quite rough water, wavy, and very hard to sight. Most times were quite slow.

If those results are to be believed a F30-34 out swam the entire elite field including the front pack of rock-star swimmer elite men. This was over a multi-lap swim course which was not wet suit legal. Starting in the F30-34 wave she would have had to battle through people around both laps too, no clear water / straight lines for her.

A dig into Amy's background she has some pretty good but not faster than elite swim results and in December last year she swam a 41:12 to come out of the water in 681th place in a 70.3, this was a wet suit legal single lap race where the elite men took 22-23 minutes including Dylan McNeice (23:47). Bad day? Maybe? Or a more realistic representation of her swim time on a single lap course?

Note her other great swim time was at ITU Edmonton Grand Final 2014 where she swum just over 1 minute slower than the elite woman was also a 2 lap course....

This swim time put Amy in a position where she could lead wire to wire and claim an Age Group World Championship but something that swim time doesn't look right...

http://www.triathlon.org/...championships/299378

I hope someone else noticed this and has challenged it already. Seems really obvious when you look at the times posted in the link, like really really obvious.

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 21:17

Post #4 of 1286 (64696 views)

At least initially, the 2nd place finisher in that AG was ranked #1 based on fb posts. Someone here must know her and can find out the scoop...

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 21:29

Post #5 of 1286 (64667 views)

The next closest competitor in her AG finished almost 30 minutes behind her for the swim which is Pamela Meyer. In 2014 Pamela Meyer was first out of the water at the 2014 Weihai ITU Long Distance Triathlon World Championships
with a time of 58:01.

Twitter@Forsey37

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 21:58

Post #6 of 1286 (64619 views)

At 70.3 Lanz '15 she swam 26:18 (one lap course), while Swallow swam 23:52; so she has some fish cred, just not beat-the-top-pros fish cred.

My first thought is that there is some sort of timing/wave error that needs to be corrected (ex. her time is 10min. fast).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 22:16

Post #7 of 1286 (64587 views)

Titanflexr wrote:

At 70.3 Lanz '15 she swam 26:18 (one lap course), while Swallow swam 23:52; so she has some fish cred, just not beat-the-top-pros fish cred.

My first thought is that there is some sort of timing/wave error that needs to be corrected (ex. her time is 10min. fast).

Good find. I wonder if you're correct on the wave error? Sneaky start in the female wave before your wave trick... Wonder if there's competitor photos / video of them exiting the water to check the color of her cap? (Assuming they did different colored caps this year)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chicks are like Voltron, the more you can get, the better it is." -Tucker

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 24, 16 22:46

Post #8 of 1286 (64542 views)

Found a picture of her in the same color swim cap as 2 other competitors in different age groups
Kathy Eggers NZ F40-44
Daniela Kaminska POL F20-24
Did everyone start together or did they start in waves and all have the same cap?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Chicks are like Voltron, the more you can get, the better it is." -Tucker

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 25, 16 1:21

Post #9 of 1286 (64378 views)

ITU will take forever clearing it up! Took nearly 2 months for the results from the ITU sprint race in Leeds Race in the UK to be cleared up with all the course cutters. I went from 119th to 101st(I'm not fast!) once they had had cleared out all the course cutters including the top 2 in the entire AG field!! ONe guy had a 750m swim time that was so fast he would have had to swim about 10sec/100m faster than the current men's 800m world record!!

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [chunkytfg] [ In reply to ]

Oct 26, 16 21:30

Post #10 of 1286 (63742 views)

I think there was a disqualification initially but this was protested.

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 2:15

Post #11 of 1286 (63604 views)

Surprised the Americans have been so quiet on this one, and equally surprised ITU have swept under the carpet.

The girl DOES NOT swim 8 mins quicker than Jodie - it is just comical.

Whether it was an honest mistake ot not, someone lost a world title because someone else couldn't count to two.

http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 2:51

Post #12 of 1286 (63559 views)

AlphaQ wrote:

Found a picture of her in the same color swim cap as 2 other competitors in different age groups
Kathy Eggers NZ F40-44
Daniela Kaminska POL F20-24
Did everyone start together or did they start in waves and all have the same cap?

I was not there, someone who was will no doubt chime in.

Looking at the event photos, it looks as if the younger female AG's started together in the same coloured hats, after the male AG's (in hats coloured differently from the women) and before the older female AG's. Unlikely she could have sneaked into an earlier wave and it appears that she is waiting to start with her correct wave in the photo.

Kamiska appears to have one of the fastest female swims of the day in 1.2x, as does Yoneda from Japan who is also in the photo. This photo appears to be taken from the front of that wave start.

But, Eggers swims in 1.5x, which is about double the swim time of Stretton. Maybe they swam around together and Stretton forgot to do a second lap?

I guess it all depends on whether there was a timing mat after the first swim lap.

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 3:37

Post #13 of 1286 (63515 views)

(Cancels plans, hits "Watch Thread", pops popcorn)

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 4:03

Post #14 of 1286 (63465 views)

Agreed.

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 5:10

Post #15 of 1286 (63371 views)

AlphaQ wrote:

Titanflexr wrote:

At 70.3 Lanz '15 she swam 26:18 (one lap course), while Swallow swam 23:52; so she has some fish cred, just not beat-the-top-pros fish cred.

My first thought is that there is some sort of timing/wave error that needs to be corrected (ex. her time is 10min. fast).

Good find. I wonder if you're correct on the wave error? Sneaky start in the female wave before your wave trick... Wonder if there's competitor photos / video of them exiting the water to check the color of her cap? (Assuming they did different colored caps this year)

In London 2013 Grand Final she swam 10:40 for 750m, one of the faster swims of the day among age groupers.
http://www.triathlon.org/..._final_london/259902

In Edmonton's Aquathon she swam 10:44 for 750m (wetsuit), also towards the faster end of AG times, but slower than the elites
http://www.triathlon.org/...championships/268824

And she swam a 19:44 in the Edmonton triathlon in 2014, also one of the faster swim times.
http://www.triathlon.org/...inal_edmonton/268889

So she has some decent swim times. BUT, it is highly suspect that no other AGer swam under 1:20 at Oklahoma while she posted a 55 min swim. Can't see how that's possible that she swam over 25 minutes faster than any other female AGer.

ETA: comparing her OKL swim time to the other fastest in her AG...
2nd fastest was Pamela Meyer who swam 28 minutes slower. In Weihai 2014 Meyer swam 58:01, the fastest in her AG by over 2 minutes.

Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Oct 27, 16 5:19

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 5:29

Post #16 of 1286 (63319 views)

Kay Serrar wrote:

AlphaQ wrote:

Titanflexr wrote:

At 70.3 Lanz '15 she swam 26:18 (one lap course), while Swallow swam 23:52; so she has some fish cred, just not beat-the-top-pros fish cred.

My first thought is that there is some sort of timing/wave error that needs to be corrected (ex. her time is 10min. fast).

Good find. I wonder if you're correct on the wave error? Sneaky start in the female wave before your wave trick... Wonder if there's competitor photos / video of them exiting the water to check the color of her cap? (Assuming they did different colored caps this year)

In London 2013 Grand Final she swam 10:40 for 750m, one of the faster swims of the day among age groupers.
http://www.triathlon.org/..._final_london/259902

In Edmonton's Aquathon she swam 10:44 for 750m (wetsuit), also towards the faster end of AG times, but slower than the elites
http://www.triathlon.org/...championships/268824

And she swam a 19:44 in the Edmonton triathlon in 2014, also one of the faster swim times.
http://www.triathlon.org/...inal_edmonton/268889

So she has some decent swim times. BUT, it is highly suspect that no other AGer swam under 1:20 at Oklahoma while she posted a 55 min swim. Can't see how that's possible that she swam over 25 minutes faster than any other female AGer.

ETA: comparing her OKL swim time to the other fastest in her AG...
2nd fastest was Pamela Meyer who swam 28 minutes slower. In Weihai 2014 Meyer swam 58:01, the fastest in her AG by over 2 minutes.

I'm not defending her in any way, I don't know her or have a fish in that pond (he,he) But:

If she is the kind of person that knows how to swim in rough water then a 55 min swim is possible. Not for me since I was about ~30 min slower than I predicted, but is it possible she just knows how to swim in that rough water?

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 5:50

Post #17 of 1286 (63276 views)

well it does look like she's a reasonably good swimmer, but it is completely unreasonable to have bettered the second best swimmer in the AG (who also has very good swim credentials) by 28 MINS (over 4km) and be over 25 MINS faster than any other female AGer. By all accounts it was a very rough, choppy swim on a very windy day. Something is amiss.

What's odd is that based on comparative times in other races and compared to other reasonably good swimmers, you might have predicted she would swim about 1:23-1:30. So if she had only swum one loop you would have thought her swim time would be about half that, or about 40-45 mins. I guess it's still quite possible she had a bad swim (plenty of athletes did), took 55 mins for one loop and then either forgot to do a 2nd loop or just decided she would exit after one loop and just complete the course (and may have then been surprised not to have been DQ'd). Obviously if the latter is the case she should have DQ'd herself.

Does anyone know if she actually accepted the winner's award?

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 6:14

Post #18 of 1286 (63209 views)

I watched at least one female cheat on the Swim at IMLT. When I came around for my second lap towards the end, I looked over and saw this person treading water.
I knew she was not a good swimmer, and had not trained much before the race. So when I saw the swim times after the race, and I only beat her by a few minutes, I knew
right away that she had only swam one lap. When I asked the RD about this, their comment was since there was no getting out of the water on the first lap and going across
a timing mat, there really is no way to stop folks from doing this.

So, it would be very easy to have anyone else do the same. Just swim slow, stop, do one lap, and ones times might not look too bad.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 6:15

Post #19 of 1286 (63209 views)

I was there and also had a slower swim time than normal with the wind and waves. On the second lap there were a number of AG women swimming up the wrong side of the rectangle into traffic and a number of people walking on the shallow area in both directions. The kayakers were being blown down course and struggling to hold their position. The buoys were clearly numbered at the corners, so there should have been little room for error, but there were swimmers all over the place.

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 6:23

Post #20 of 1286 (63182 views)

I was there. This woman came out of the water, shortly after Spieldy and Swallow. Not to judge a book by its cover, but she did not fit the picture of someone that outswam the best pro swimmers by a healthy margin.

I immediately assumed she swam one lap. There really is no other way. I tweeted to ITU and Redman to check that result.

Internet User

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [AlphaQ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 6:33

Post #21 of 1286 (63097 views)

As many have noted the swim was a shit show. Looking back, I wish she could have clued me in to her tactics before the start ;) In all seriousness 55:xx in those conditions is world class. Sighting was difficult so I didn't swim the straightest, but talking with others is sounds as if the course was a little long as well.

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 7:00

Post #22 of 1286 (63017 views)

I passed another AG athlete very early on during the bike (like mile 1-2) with the last name Guthrie (if my memory is correct). She had to have swum 1 lap as well. Honestly, one lap seemed to take forever in those conditions so I can see how you would just want to get out--or think you were done. I know I wanted to get out after one lap. Very rough swim. Ocean is better since the chop is has more a rhythm to it. This was just a washing machine.

(edit: checked results. Guthrie was in F50-54, recorded a 56:14 swim and was DSQ).

Emily Cocks

Last edited by: swimmerwhotris: Oct 27, 16 7:13

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 7:08

Post #23 of 1286 (62975 views)

h2ofun wrote:

When I asked the RD about this, their comment was since there was no getting out of the water on the first lap and going across
a timing mat, there really is no way to stop folks from doing this.

That's rediculous. Even short races with 2 lap swims have a mat. That's a stupid place to save a couple of dollars!

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 7:11

Post #24 of 1286 (62956 views)

Titanflexr wrote:

At 70.3 Lanz '15 she swam 26:18 (one lap course), while Swallow swam 23:52; so she has some fish cred, just not beat-the-top-pros fish cred.

My first thought is that there is some sort of timing/wave error that needs to be corrected (ex. her time is 10min. fast).

Just a bit of extra info re this previous race from someone I'm friends with on FB:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=408587676012006&id=270677359803039&ref=content_filter

Re: Strange swim time leads to winning AG World Championship? ITU Long Distance Worlds 2016 [swimmerwhotris] [ In reply to ]

Oct 27, 16 7:13

Post #25 of 1286 (62940 views)

You know, I think that is who I saw. I remember saying she was over 45 and swam 56:xx. Looking at the results a Guthrie was DQd.

Internet User

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.