Splitting rides into two sessions per day?

Feb 12, 19 12:59

Post #1 of 18 (3412 views)

So I have been a stay at home dad/mid to back of pack pro for the last few years. I’m really trying to push my limits in this coming season and have been able to put in more consistent hours than ever before due to waking at 4 every day to fit in 1.5 - 2 hours on the bike every morning. All on trainer. I’ve recently added a 45 minute extra easier steady state ride during the end of my younger ones nap and before I pick up my son from school. This puts me at 2 to 2.5 hours per day on the bike. I’ve had most weeks recently be at 12-13 hours just on the trainer.

Question is... am I gaining anything by simply adding a shorter easier ride? My morning workouts are a mix of tempo/FT/VO2.

I’m also fitting in 30-40 miles of running and 15-20k of swimming. Childcare at a gym is the best thing since the discovery of sex. I would not be doing this without it.

Anyways, thank you for any input. Been self coached for 15 years and I find self coaching and experimentation to be part of why I like this sport. So no... no coach in my future.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 13:19

Post #2 of 18 (3355 views)

When you say "easier" do you mean "recovery" or "endurance"?

There is probably at least some benefit to riding an extra 45 minutes at, say, IM or almost 70.3 race power. But if it's just a spin at a recovery effort I would say probably not. You are not the target audience for simply "extra saddle time".

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 13:22

Post #3 of 18 (3343 views)

It’s usually at or orotund IM power.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 13:30

Post #4 of 18 (3323 views)

My coach regularly gives me double ride days but the morning is easier around 2hrs for volume and second ride is a hard 2hr session.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 13:42

Post #5 of 18 (3288 views)

colinlaughery wrote:

It’s usually at or orotund IM power.

As long as you don't feel it is impacting your recovery and you have time to do it vs doing something else with your time that is important, it's probably not a bad thing.

On the other hand that ride is worth only an extra 30 or so TSS points for the day. Is that worth it? I don't know. It certainly isn't going to hurt though.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 13:43

Post #6 of 18 (3285 views)

I would research training plans that are meant for a bicycle commuter. They always have two rides a day and the the plans customize to enable them to fit in their work into the commutes.

The only problem is that that stuff is probably not for a MOP/BOP professional. More for a schmuck noob like myself.

I only mention the commuter plans because I've come across them in time crunched cycling training plans.

I tend to feel lately I can consume all the SS I want if I eat/stretch/sleep well. True VO2 for me requires a bit of form in the TSB to really nail it.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 14:01

Post #7 of 18 (3246 views)

I'm an amateur athlete but I have a flexible schedule and am fortunate to train with a squad of professional female triathletes in the Bay Area.

Our coach often prescribes double bike days comprised of 90mins intervals in the AM and then 2-4 hours "endurance effort" later in the day (outdoors).

I've found these sessions have been major contributors to my cycling when I did them consistently (2017) in the lead up to Ironman events and hope to do them again this summer in the lead up to Kona. We didn't include them much in 2018 due to my schedule and I think my cycling suffered.

Not sure if that helps

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 12, 19 14:03

Post #8 of 18 (3239 views)

Some great info here that may be help for you. Start around 19:00......

https://www.youtube.com/...=youtu.be&t=1051

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 0:39

Post #9 of 18 (3032 views)

Hey Colin! Hope all is well with you.

Absolutely double ride days great. Can generally accomplish more metabolic work (kJ) over two rides than one due to ability of recovery. Sure you still wanna keep those longer rides set in 1 longer for specificity, but that can also be your long ride on the weekends.

We find great success with this, and also many pro-cyclists who are weather bound during the winter while not at training camps, generally get their fitness by riding 2-3x/day on the turbo rather than 1 long one.

Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 2:49

Post #10 of 18 (2964 views)

We're you replying to me or the OP?

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 4:32

Post #11 of 18 (2870 views)

Sorry can't help you with your question but if I add up the hours I get to over 20 hours per week with a huge percentage of intensive training.

I can hardly understand how to survive that let alone to improve.

When do you go to bed? I just read a thread in which someone also did a lot of morning sessions and when he stopped with 4 out of 7 sessions without compensation he even became better because he finally got some sleep.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 4:45

Post #12 of 18 (2842 views)

I frequently double up on my rides (Cat 1), but I almost always do the hard session (or race) as the second ride. First ride is just easy/ low tempo. I typically have a much better workout after doing an early first ride.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 7:33

Post #13 of 18 (2707 views)

If you enjoy the extra riding, then knock it out.

If you do a VO2/FT/Tempo ride in the AM, the 45 min easy ride later in the day it really does nothing for you IMO. Just "junk" miles.
It interrupts recovery for the next ride, adds more fatigue.

If you are looking for a aerobic threshold day, I can see breaking it up if you had to. 2 hours in AM. 1 hour later for a 3 hour day.

Just cause you have the time doesn't necessarily mean you have to fill it up with a ride. Consider some core/functional strength work, stretching, massage, etc.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [TriJayhawkRyan] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 8:50

Post #14 of 18 (2648 views)

TriJayhawkRyan wrote:

If you enjoy the extra riding, then knock it out.

If you do a VO2/FT/Tempo ride in the AM, the 45 min easy ride later in the day it really does nothing for you IMO. Just "junk" miles.
It interrupts recovery for the next ride, adds more fatigue.

If you are looking for a aerobic threshold day, I can see breaking it up if you had to. 2 hours in AM. 1 hour later for a 3 hour day.

Just cause you have the time doesn't necessarily mean you have to fill it up with a ride. Consider some core/functional strength work, stretching, massage, etc.

Ryan - this seems counter to what others are saying including the trainer road podcast. What is your reasoning behind this? From what I’ve gotten so far, a low stress ride adds stress that shouldn’t interfere with recovery.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 9:02

Post #15 of 18 (2630 views)

If you are pedaling at Z1 (low stress or even Z2)... but it's not really adding anything as far as fitness goes hence why I called it "junk miles".
45 minutes of Z2 at your level you described for aerobic threshold seems like a rain drop in a big aerobic bucket.
If it feels good to get your legs going, by all means I would say, but my take is it's not going to really help your fitness.

Do you have off days from cycling and low intensity if you do anything else?
Just curious if you ever get a chance to recover and adapt, or if you are always adding load of some sort.

Just a quick snippet that aligns with my approach - https://www.joefrielsblog.com/...nd-overtraining.html

Over training comes to mind with what you described or at least to a point you may not make significant gains due to over load.

Just my take.

Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 10:02

Post #16 of 18 (2578 views)

colinlaughery wrote:

TriJayhawkRyan wrote:

If you enjoy the extra riding, then knock it out.

If you do a VO2/FT/Tempo ride in the AM, the 45 min easy ride later in the day it really does nothing for you IMO. Just "junk" miles.
It interrupts recovery for the next ride, adds more fatigue.

If you are looking for a aerobic threshold day, I can see breaking it up if you had to. 2 hours in AM. 1 hour later for a 3 hour day.

Just cause you have the time doesn't necessarily mean you have to fill it up with a ride. Consider some core/functional strength work, stretching, massage, etc.

Ryan - this seems counter to what others are saying including the trainer road podcast. What is your reasoning behind this? From what I’ve gotten so far, a low stress ride adds stress that shouldn’t interfere with recovery.

Agreed. The Trainer Road podcast gives a number of reasons a very easy ride will help.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 11:25

Post #17 of 18 (2503 views)

If you are handling it fine, then keep doing it. More is more. If it's impacting other workouts or you start to feel run down then you should ditch them though.

Re: Splitting rides into two sessions per day? [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]

Feb 13, 19 12:34

Post #18 of 18 (2449 views)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17685689%20

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