I've done 2 duathlons and 2 stage race TTs on a borrowed P5-3 with magura brakes.

Noticeably different than my p3? *maybe* but it is probably in my head. Even if you were getting the full theoretical ~40 second savings over 40k, that would be hard to notice without field testing.

The bike was great though, no problems climbing, descending, or in the rain. Maguras were excellent.

How confident are you that you have duplicated your old position exactly?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

There's a definitely a "mental edge" that comes from riding my P5. I will sadly admit that I haven't been consistent in training this season as I thought I would be. Work and family keep interfering with my plans. Hopefully within the next two weeks things calm down and I can settle in and really put it through it's paces. My bike only has about 300 miles on it now.

Prior to my P5, I had a P2 that was completely stock with the exception of Zipp 808's (which moved to my P5). My P5 is set up a bit differently. It's got Rotor Q-Rings and a Rotor 3D+ Power Meter

* The bike is stiff. I found that on bumpy pavement it was pretty harsh. I've since made the switch to latex tubes and it seems to be improved a bit.

* I recently (or at some point since getting the bike) had an issue with the seat post slipping. I had noticed some pains and aches that I never used to get, as well as significant cramping on relatively easy rides that I never had a problem with. I assumed it was my lack of consistency. When they didn't improve at all, I started looking the bike over. My seat height is usually set to 99 cm or so, and it was at 93-94 when checked by my LBS. Needless to say, it closed my position off considerably.

* The bike holds up well to a crash. I had one good crash (there's an old thread on it). The bike only has a scratch on the cages and on the brake lever.

* The brakes are powerful. If you're not used to hydraulic brakes and their progressive feel, it's not hard to lock up the wheels.

* The bike is super adjustable. I like the way they integrated cage mounts on the aero bars.

* Garmin mounting was a challenge since there isn't a traditional stem on the bike. I ended up ordering a mount from one of the guys here that works perfectly.

I'm hoping my numbers improve now that I have the seat back to where it should be. I should feel better on the bike and as I settle into training I'm sure I'll find more of the bikes potential.

In my opinion is it better than my P2? Yes. I think it will be as I return to race shape. Is it an absolute game changer? Eh, maybe not. But there is something to be said for "pride of ownership." I worked hard to be able to have my dream bike. I'm happy with it.

Shane

Coming from a P3 I find it to be much more stiff, solid and stable on twisty fast descents. The brakes are a huge upgrade and work better than I hoped. Overall, my position is the same so the speeds are much different, and I would not expect them to be, but my ride comfort and the ease of using it make a much better bike. I love that I no longer rely on zip ties and velcro to mount hydration/computers/food etc.

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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You bring up an interesting point. When I picked up my bike, it was supposed to be built to mimic my P2 settings. It wasn't even close. We made a huge amount of changes. I don't know if they just didn't really get it to where my P2 was since we were refitting anyway, or if the bike was that different. It's better now, but I still find that we are tweaking the position quite a bit.

Shane

I recently purchased a P5. I am coming from riding a P2 and P4. Tend to train on the P2 and more race on the P4. I really, really like my P5. The bike with the components and in particular the 3T Aduro bar are very well engineered. I view it as offering both the practical aspects of a P2 and the more exotic features of a P4. I tend to make changes often with my bikes including riding different wheels, tweaking fit. I ride with different drops depending on the race length. My P4 has a 3T Ventus bar and did not lend itself to make adjustments easily.

I have found the P5 to be far better. But your question is on speed difference and to be honest I have not been able to reach the same speed to watts numbers I did on my P4. But the weather has been terrible here to do good comparisons and I do not have anywhere near enough data. I plan on continuing to tweak and expect to get to achieve better results than the P4 or the P2. My P4 is a 56 and I did remove the dust cover but still can not get as aggressive position as my 54 P5. This fact alone I expect to achieve better results with my P5.

There are a couple of things with my present setup on my P5 that I think might be attributing to the bike not being faster. They are:

1) I am using a GXP Quarq. So I am using the BBright adapter. I am not convinced this is the best solution. When I get some time I do plan on putting the crank that came on the bike with my PT wheel and compare to the Quarq with PT wheel. See if anything is obvious. I am also going to purchase a BB30/BBRight Quarq before end of summer and resolve the issue once and for all.

2) I am using the X-lo bar on the P5. I then have the cups right on the bar. I did leave a little of the steerer tube. I plan to cut off the rest and move to using cup risers. I am thinking that cups directly on the bar causes a performance issue.

3) I have been riding with the same wheels and tires that I race on last year. But I did put tire sealer in the latex tubes before my IM race last fall. I am thinking that maybe this is causing a slow down. I plan replacing tubes with tubes that do not have sealer. I know some have mentioned that sealer does not slow you down but I am not convinced.

4) It is possible that the more aggressive position I ride with on the P5 is actually slower than the P4.

5) Major issue is that my P4 is presently in pieces and I need to build back up and then do a much more direct comparison. I need to make a decision on what drive train I will use.

Also, my P4 was tweaked constantly last year with weekly TT racing. So it got to a point where my fit was dialed in as well as everything else. The P5 has not gone through the same process. Hopefully it will happen but I am having some motivation issues and to help plan on doing more group rides on my road bike.

Ultimately I believe the P4 was a very fast bike especially with low wind. I am not convinced that the P5 is going to be much faster if your position is identical on both bikes and you have a Ventus and Omega on the P4. I purchased the P5 because I had an itch for a new bike and loved the P5, needed to get to a more aggressive position, wanted brakes that work, wanted a bike that could be a daily ride.

I am extremely happy with my purchase. But I did see the new P3 in person and that is a sic bike. But if to do over again I would have purchased the P5. Only thing I would have changed is that I would have purchase the new DA Di2 instead of the older 7970. This is really only driven by the fact it is really difficult to find 7970 parts even used.

Same fitter as my P2 and I have full confidence in his ability. I probably have too high an expectation.
I have the P5 three, but upgraded the fork. I love the Red Yaw, it shifts beautifully. I also love the Magura brakes. I'm certainly not slower than last year... I just wanted to be doing sub 5 hour IM bikes... is that unreasonable?

I agree, there is something to be said for having your dream bike. I think that once I'm getting in more consistent outdoor rides, I will do more tweaking and notice more dramatic differences. I wouldn't want any other bike.

Summary of what I wrote above. My experience is similar to yours. Love the P5 but have not noticed a significant performance improvement.

3 rides (1 longer group) and 2 time trials on my P5-3. Previous TT rig a P3-SL with Tri-Omegas.

I'll echo the others, LOVE the Maguras! Easy to adjust, great feel (once you get used to them - about flat spotted some tires the first time I panic hit the fronts). Definitely "smoother" than my old rig on all surfaces. Handles very well for 80 degree+ STA rig (lower BB). Times about the same so far based on power, times, weather, wind, same wheels, etc. but that was on a "stock fit". I've since went longer and lower and a bit closer to my P3-SL (55cm vs. 54cm for the P5) older fit. Needed a -17 stem and 3cm longer to do it, but should shave off a few more secs. Love the seat adjustment(s) as well compared with the horrible old system on the older Al P3s.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

What was you IM time before the P5? If you were 5:30 the P5 is not knocking off that type of time.

I was just kidding. It is unreasonable. My best 112 bike split is 5:31 in change. I'm relatively new at that distance and would love to see 5:25 or better and I think that's reasonable.

I remember reading somewhere that it was important for the air to be able to pass between the cups and the bar freely. This was not specific to the P5 but generally. It does seem reasonable to me. You do have to be careful with the P5 as when using the risers the bars do not move. I use ski most of the time and I am only looking at 20mm of risers so it does not seem that it will be an issue for me.

I have some work to do but I think I might be able to move between my different positions based on race length by switching X-lo and lo bar and then move placement of the cups with the adjustability that is available. I do think I will also need to increase the risers a little also for IM length.

But have the summer to work it all out. Right now really only concentrating on TT position.

I have heard that it is best to either have no gap, or a lot of gap.

So, you might want to leave them where they are.

Swapping bars out seems like a lot of hassle when you could just add elbow pad spacers when you want to go higher.

Or just,not go higher =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Off topic, I know, but I'd be interested to hear the answer to this as well. I'm eyeing off the tririg aerobar and am guessing that I might look at the pads on the base bar and extensions underneath configuragtion..

I'm coming from a stock P2 with HED3s front and back for training, and a Jet disk for TTs. I'm using these wheels on my P5, too. I loved my P2 and, after a few months, I think I love the P5, too. I trust that the P5 is inherently faster, but I believe that one would be hard pressed to see a convincing effect among the "noise" and uncontrollable factors that are associated with any given race day. I have set one PR on the P5 so far, at our monthly 8 mile TT that I've done dozens of times over the past several years (PR by about 3 seconds). I have so far not equalled my PR at a 40K TT distance on three attempts, but I had good "excuses" in each case. On a positive note, I did do a sub- 5 hour century charity ride on the P5 (no drafting), and I was very comfortable all the way to the end. I don't feel like I have replicated my P2 position yet, and probably can't without the X-low bars; I have the regular low bars, no spacers (I'm 5'9", size 54). In conclusion, I'm happy with my new toy, but I would say that you shouldn't feel that you are missing out on speed if you already have something as good as a P2. Train harder.

That 8 mile TT performance was killer. I wonder if the yaw angles were just right for the p5 that day!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I think you're right. I fully expect to experience the benefits of the P5. I do believe I'm sustaining similar speeds at less effort. Unfortunately I upgraded my GPX Quarq with the new Red and I'm not confident the numbers are comparable. If they are comparable then I'm slower on the P5 as my power numbers are considerably higher.
I also think I need an all out balls to the wall effort to fairly assess. I guess a FTP test is in order.

That's the issue, I just haven't had favorable yaw angle yet :)
I hope I'm not giving everyone the wrong impression, I love my P5.

So if you see a .001 percent different taken in different months, you will attribute that to the bike?

I really have no way of truly quantifying improvement from the p2 to the P5... I get that. That said, any improvement I happen to experience is certainly not going to be credited to the bike :)

I rode a P3 for 4 or 5 years. The P5 rides better and feels faster. I do have an interesting data point: I did St. Anthony's 2 years ago on my P3 at NP of 238. I did this year's race with the exact same NP, and averaged 2 watts less. My file shows exactly one minute faster on the P5. Same position, same tires, same wheelcover on 808. Differences: P5 had firecrest 808, FC 404 front. P3 had 808s non-FC. Had the selector helmet and visor with the P5 and the Advantage II with the P3. Otherwise everything else was the same (including, of course, latex tubes). The conditions were basically the same.

I know, too many variables. But interesting nonetheless.

I agree that there are to many variables, but that is pretty interesting.

I came off a Felt B2 Pro and have seen an enormous difference but sorting out exactly what to credit can be tough. The first week I did a set of intervals that I have done before, over a road I have ridden a million times, in ordinary conditions and I saw a huge jump. I can't attribute all of that to aerodynamics, especially since my fit was no where near dialed in, but mostly to handling. The bike rides beautifully and I was able to push much harder into turns and accelerated more quickly out of them. It also maintains it's speed very well, presumably due to its aero-ness. It descends better than my last bike and climbs similarly. I find myself willing to ride in a way that I haven't since I gave up my road bike: gravel, grass, technical, whatever. Again, difficult to credit though because my last bike had a 650 wheel which changes the feel. The difference in my race results is obvious too, though I also got a new coach who has had a lot to do with that as well.

The downside? I can be a little bit shy around strangers and since I travel alone to races, I have gotten used to not knowing anyone or talking to anyone. It provides little pressure to perform. Now, when I show up to a race, the bike sometimes draws a crowd and always draws attention...especially at the smaller races. There is no flying under the radar with a P5. No question as to what is causing that.

All I know is that I have been able to recover my confidence and I really enjoy this bike. I don't know if I would be having the same experience on another model or brand and I don't care. It's the best money I have ever spent in this sport.

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Coach Brain: Accelerate 3 ; Incoherent Ramblings