So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training

Dec 19, 19 14:48

Post #1 of 37 (5185 views)

I didn’t have any plans to run a stand alone marathon this winter after I finished up my season in Kona, but four weeks ago I started getting the itch to see what I could do. After Kona I had a real light week of recovery then started back with my normal maintenance training. I was riding 5 times per week ~6.5 hours, running 5-6 times per week ~45 miles with a long run of 10-11 miles and swimming ~12K per week all easy swims. I also started back with my weight training. 6 weeks before the marathon I resumed my weekly Wednesday treadmill tempo run of 8-9 miles as I still like to do some hard efforts during maintenance mode. 24 days before race day I decided to do a long run and see if I could hold marathon pace from my previous PR 2:49:30, 6:28 per mile. So I ran 20.5 miles with 19 miles at 6:27 pace and decided I would give the marathon a go. That week I upped mileage to 63 miles, did 65 the next week with a long run of 16 miles with 14 at 6:25 pace. Dropped down to 50 the week before with a final longish run of 11 with 2 miles at threshold and 4 at MP. Week of, 37 miles. Last hard effort was Wednesday 8 on treadmill with 4 at tempo. The result? PR of 2:43:35. Not bad for a 46 year old. Temps were a tad cool for me in the mid 50’s and had a steady headwind of 6-8 miles the whole way as it is a point to point race. Felt great and definitely left some out on the course as I did the last 10K at a 6:00 pace. Actually was the overall winner so that was icing on the cake. My previous PR was set with a dedicated marathon build with 2 80+ mile weeks and lots of 70+ mile weeks. My take away is that the bike especially and swim maybe just gives you that deep base fitness without beating up the legs that those high mileage weeks do. I’m pretty sure Monty said that Gwen would have been better served continuing to cross train and not try to run super high miles in her quest to do the Olympic marathon and that certainly looks correct with her injury and subsequent drop down to 5 and 10K.

p.s. The Vaporfly 4% Next is magic to run in at that pace. Legs felt great during and after race.

Let food be thy medicine...

Last edited by: JackStraw13: Dec 19, 19 15:43

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Xing triathlete

Dec 19, 19 16:10

Post #2 of 37 (5065 views)

We are all so proud of you.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 16:24

Post #3 of 37 (5050 views)

Nice job, and you are one of the lucky ones, you now know less is more!! My experience back in the day was same as yours, only I did even less miles, about 38 to 45 a week of marathon paced efforts. But I threw in the once a week 3 hour bike ride for more endurance, and as you pointed out, the other sports have a calming affect on your leg pounding.

And yes I was the one that commented on Gwen and her new endeavor. I really believe she has gone way too overboard with the run mileages, and could have run much better on Tri training. It's tricky to say this stuff to people, because it is not the normal path that most take. But when you experience it for yourself like you and I have, then it is just stupid to ignore too..

And dont hate on the cold, I really think that is the kind of weather that leads to PR's for a lot of guys like you and i. I think mine started out in the high 30's, and ended in the low 50's. Felt cold of course, but not when I was crushing it for the last 20 miles..

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 16:39

Post #4 of 37 (5020 views)

I had the same experience. I started as a runner and progressed to the marathon. I was running 6 days a week regular. I had been trying to qualify for Boston for years and couldn’t get there. I got a stress fracture and could not run for 12 weeks so I started swimming and biking to stay fit. Began doing Triathlons and outside of an Ironman didn’t run another stand alone marathon for probably 6 years. One time decided after IM Florida I would try to run a marathon in February. I ran 4 times a week with one long run weekly. Kept swimming and biking to stay Tri fit. Ran the marathon in February and set an 18 minute PR and qualified for Boston on my 15 stand alone marathon. I’ve done four more since and another Boston. Still train as a triathlete every time. Works for me and I have stayed pretty much injury free.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 16:52

Post #5 of 37 (4987 views)

Nice job! 2:43 is super thug nasty. Sick!!!

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 17:20

Post #6 of 37 (4935 views)

I did the same thing with CIM. 40 mpw with a max run of 20 miles. The good: new PR of 2:21, the bad: was on pace for OQT until 5k to go and lack of weekly mileage and long run miles caused me to completely blow up. My quads were beyond destroyed and Im thankful I didn't hurt myself. It can be done, but it will be painful.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [Conky] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 17:23

Post #7 of 37 (4927 views)

Conky wrote:

I did the same thing with CIM. 40 mpw with a max run of 20 miles. The good: new PR of 2:21, the bad: was on pace for OQT until 5k to go and lack of weekly mileage and long run miles caused me to completely blow up. My quads were beyond destroyed and Im thankful I didn't hurt myself. It can be done, but it will be painful.

Were you also doing other cross training?

Let food be thy medicine...

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:17

Post #8 of 37 (4829 views)

Yea, 8-10 hrs a week cycling and 20-25k yards swimming.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:19

Post #9 of 37 (4820 views)

JackStraw13 wrote:

my previous PR 2:49:30,
The result? PR of 2:43:35. Not bad for a 46 year old. T
My previous PR was set with a dedicated marathon build with 2 80+ mile weeks and lots of 70+ mile weeks..

Congrats on your result. Very impressive.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you run your 2:49?

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [Conky] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:28

Post #10 of 37 (4808 views)

Conky wrote:

I did the same thing with CIM. 40 mpw with a max run of 20 miles. The good: new PR of 2:21, the bad: was on pace for OQT until 5k to go and lack of weekly mileage and long run miles caused me to completely blow up. My quads were beyond destroyed and Im thankful I didn't hurt myself. It can be done, but it will be painful.

I love this. OP is clearly very proud of himself and his 2:43 and overall win.

Then you show up with this comment. Ha ha ha.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [satanellus] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:43

Post #11 of 37 (4772 views)

satanellus wrote:

JackStraw13 wrote:

my previous PR 2:49:30,
The result? PR of 2:43:35. Not bad for a 46 year old. T
My previous PR was set with a dedicated marathon build with 2 80+ mile weeks and lots of 70+ mile weeks..

Congrats on your result. Very impressive.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you run your 2:49?

Almost 3 years. February 2017.

Let food be thy medicine...

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:54

Post #12 of 37 (4745 views)

JackStraw13 wrote:

satanellus wrote:

JackStraw13 wrote:

my previous PR 2:49:30,
The result? PR of 2:43:35. Not bad for a 46 year old. T
My previous PR was set with a dedicated marathon build with 2 80+ mile weeks and lots of 70+ mile weeks..

Congrats on your result. Very impressive.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you run your 2:49?

Almost 3 years. February 2017.

You deserve to be proud and pleased with your result. Always good to see "older" athletes improving and dropping PRs.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [kny] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:55

Post #13 of 37 (4745 views)

Wasn't meant to out-do the OP, just meant to back up/agree with him. I was going to make my own post but then I knew I'd get a lot of people just thinking I'm bragging. Either way, I lose.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [Conky] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 18:58

Post #14 of 37 (4741 views)

Conky wrote:

I did the same thing with CIM. 40 mpw with a max run of 20 miles. The good: new PR of 2:21, the bad: was on pace for OQT until 5k to go and lack of weekly mileage and long run miles caused me to completely blow up. My quads were beyond destroyed and Im thankful I didn't hurt myself. It can be done, but it will be painful.

Congrats and thanks for posting.

Have you always been a 40mpw runner or is there some more serious mileage hidden in your past?

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [monty] [ In reply to ]

Dec 19, 19 19:04

Post #15 of 37 (4729 views)

monty wrote:

Nice job, and you are one of the lucky ones, you now know less is more!!

It can be, but when it comes to running and fulfilling potential, essentially more is more. Up to a point of course.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 5:58

Post #16 of 37 (4373 views)

I have also been steadily improving my marathon on mostly triathlon training. Before a marathon, I will transition over to almost exclusively running, but will use the bike for active recovery spins instead of jogs. Works very well I would say.

- Jordan

My Strava

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [Conky] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 6:33

Post #17 of 37 (4319 views)

Conky wrote:

Wasn't meant to out-do the OP, just meant to back up/agree with him. I was going to make my own post but then I knew I'd get a lot of people just thinking I'm bragging. Either way, I lose.

No offense taken. That’s an awesome time. Good to see other examples of this working. I hope you were wearing the 4%. If not you probably would have qualified.

Let food be thy medicine...

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [Conky] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 6:49

Post #18 of 37 (4294 views)

Conky wrote:

I did the same thing with CIM. 40 mpw with a max run of 20 miles. The good: new PR of 2:21, the bad: was on pace for OQT until 5k to go and lack of weekly mileage and long run miles caused me to completely blow up. My quads were beyond destroyed and Im thankful I didn't hurt myself. It can be done, but it will be painful.

I assume you were a solid D1 runner?

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 8:47

Post #19 of 37 (4171 views)

If I’m running 2:43 at 46, I’ll be pretty happy. Yea, I used Next%’s. Just too much treadmill running. And i ran DIII.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 8:51

Post #20 of 37 (4162 views)

JackStraw13 wrote:

satanellus wrote:

JackStraw13 wrote:

my previous PR 2:49:30,
The result? PR of 2:43:35. Not bad for a 46 year old. T
My previous PR was set with a dedicated marathon build with 2 80+ mile weeks and lots of 70+ mile weeks..

Congrats on your result. Very impressive.

Out of curiosity, how long ago did you run your 2:49?

Almost 3 years. February 2017.

So with the shoes add 4% to your time and essentially you tided your PR with a 2:49 effort.

Btw if you are going to #hashTagCheese shouldn't you be wearing zoot shoes?

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 9:21

Post #21 of 37 (4126 views)

synthetic wrote:

Btw if you are going to #hashTagCheese shouldn't you be wearing zoot shoes?

Yeah, like The Hoff did at IMFL...

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 9:34

Post #22 of 37 (4107 views)

started back with my normal maintenance training. I was riding 5 times per week ~6.5 hours, running 5-6 times per week ~45 miles with a long run of 10-11 miles and swimming ~12K per week all easy swims...…….The result? PR of 2:43:35. Not bad for a 46 year old.
_____

you are in my AG and that is pro training and running....please get your card-:)

@rhyspencer

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [rhys] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 11:51

Post #23 of 37 (3995 views)

My brother got into Ultra Marathons two years ago and with his new base wanted to take a shot at breaking his Marathon PR. I am faster than my bother so he asked me if I would run it with him to pace him to a PR. The marathon was 2 weeks after my "A" race in the 70.3. So I agreed to do the marathon as a B race. About the only change I made to my 70.3 plan was to increase my long runs by 20% and to run them in zone 1 heart rate range rather than in zone 2. So It toed the line of my first Marathon in 10 years on and average of 27 miles of running a week. I had focused on running fast marathons for 2 years and no of them had gone my way so I gave up on them and focused on half marathons for 6 years then started triathlons 4 years ago. When I was focused on Marathons I averaged about 45 miles a week in training. Well...That marathon on a 70.3 training plan went better than any of my marathons did on 45 miles a week (with peak weeks up to 55 miles). So...yes you can run a fast marathon on Ironman training. I limited my long runs to 2-1/2 hour long runs and then got my aerobic endurance up by doing 3-1/2 hour bike rides. Cross training is something that would have helped me when I was training for marathons, but I was so focused on running I didn't do anything else.

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 12:26

Post #24 of 37 (3937 views)

Wow that is impressive! I have always thought that base bike fitness would carry over onto the run but have never put that theory into practice.

Or maybe it was just the shoes...

Re: So I guess you can run a good marathon off primarily IM training [curtish26] [ In reply to ]

Dec 20, 19 12:27

Post #25 of 37 (3937 views)

curtish26 wrote:

My brother got into Ultra Marathons two years ago and with his new base wanted to take a shot at breaking his Marathon PR. I am faster than my bother so he asked me if I would run it with him to pace him to a PR. The marathon was 2 weeks after my "A" race in the 70.3. So I agreed to do the marathon as a B race. About the only change I made to my 70.3 plan was to increase my long runs by 20% and to run them in zone 1 heart rate range rather than in zone 2. So It toed the line of my first Marathon in 10 years on and average of 27 miles of running a week. I had focused on running fast marathons for 2 years and no of them had gone my way so I gave up on them and focused on half marathons for 6 years then started triathlons 4 years ago. When I was focused on Marathons I averaged about 45 miles a week in training. Well...That marathon on a 70.3 training plan went better than any of my marathons did on 45 miles a week (with peak weeks up to 55 miles). So...yes you can run a fast marathon on Ironman training. I limited my long runs to 2-1/2 hour long runs and then got my aerobic endurance up by doing 3-1/2 hour bike rides. Cross training is something that would have helped me when I was training for marathons, but I was so focused on running I didn't do anything else.

So how did the race go and how did your brother do?

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

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