If I had to chose between my road or tri bikes, the tri bike would be gone fairy fast. The road bike is just so much more versatile.

Isn't that why the Soloist was invented?

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Increasing awareness for suffers of DGS (Diminished Gluteal Syndrome).

Congratulations..you are now a happy example of John Cobb's "Big Slam" position theory.
My question is : Can you feel more of the work load on your quads as opposed to your calves..,with the geometry of the Orbea than that of the P3 ? ( In the aero position)
I guess the true test would be how you fell running off your Orbea.
IMHO I always felt the P3 was a bike suited for shorter than IM distances where the course was mainly flat ,and its rider had a long enough torso to match the TT length.
A course like IM LP with all those rollers..i'm still debating on using my Caliente or my C'Dale w/ STI shifters and clip ons.
I climb much better w/ the latter bike.
I saw Simon Lessing rip that course apart in 04 w/ his Soloist( Drops, Campy Record,tons of Carbon stuff..sweet bike overall)...but, maybe thats just his UTi background.
I"m trying to picture your upgrades.. like Carbon drop bars...FSA Carbon Crank..Carbon seatpost(aero)Zipps...Campy...Carbon chain..carbon tape,carbon water..carbon GU...yikes!!
Good Luck.
Maybe you can post a pic when you're done.
I always liked those bikes.

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Seeing him in deep torment, I said. " You can have my last GU , but its been down my pants for most of the run". - John Hirsch

Take care of your body, its by far the coolest thing you're going to ever own.- Can't remember who told me this, but I love it.

Or a happy convert to the thousands of riders who rode that way before cobb invented the big slam ;-).



Styrrell

I ride a Fort frame and fork 58cm. Thron (Columbus) steel Road geometry frame 2000 vintage and very good price to. It's old school geometry with a shorter top tube. It just works well for me.I used the old school fit method.Which works good to. My back up is a 1970 PX10e I bought long ago it was my dream bike.I do enjoy steel luged or not.I am working on my bike snob thing with the tubbies and barend shifters and no carbon fiber thing :-)

PS I to am a BC guy to (before Cobb)

The dirt

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

where are you living now?

Good choice.

Although I am very tempted by the "recent" carbon Tri bikes....I still ride around 75 degree which can be accomplised with a road or TT set-up. Obviously, the P3 is a two trick pony and a rare breed...but I see "tri" bikes dying out with the decline of tri popularity in the next few years. (not exactly on topic).

My TT bike is a Giant TCR composite (with bullhorns), but very tempted to sell and just ride my new Soloist with some Vision jammers.

John,

I've been considering the same thing you are doing. I bought an Orbea carbon road bike (Orca) several months back and love the ride & feel of it so much I'm considering using it this tri season. (I still have the tri bike collecting cobwebs since Oct. in the spare room). I've always ridden a steep angle tri bike for tri's, so it will be an experiment for me. For your set-up have you put a seat forward post on yours? I have yet to put aero clip-ons on mine, but with the seatpost that comes on the Orca I think I sit a little too far back to ride on aerobars.

I too am thinking of the same thing. I recently got a Trek 5200 carbon bike and that is all I have ridden. The Softride Rocket has been hanging in the garage for 6+ months. I think I am faster on the Trek. It is hard to tell since I got hit by a car while training this past summer (Insurance paid for the new bike--the Trek), and I am just now ready to work out hard. So I will try the trek in a few races this summer and see how it goes. But I am not ready to sell the Rocket--but I have considered it. I am going to wait and see.

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Jon Bergmann
http://jonbergmann.com

What's with these de-real-rures or what ever? If you want to change gears get off your bike and flip the rear wheel like I do. I don't need fancy padding on my seat I got a spike. Yeah I ride like a man.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

oooo, that carbon is sexy. i just got a starship carbon custom painted frame off of ebay for a near criminal price! I don't have a fwd seat post but i do have an arione saddle with long rails. i am going into a pro bike fit next week so we'll see about that but altho at first i shoved the saddle far fwd, i have now been moving it back as i am riding (apparently) more in a big slam position - less aero, forearms on pads, wrists cocked on s-bend extensions (from 3T - really nice). ill post pics after my fit. the p3 had to go b/c i am not bjorn, just an AGer - I am very happy with my Orbea as a tt bike (w/ P3 proceeds I may hook it up w/ an ergomo) and of course it is also great as a roadie set up. Also, now Im back to 1 bike i can start thinking about getting a fixie and a mtn-bike!!!!

I am not that dark. I have considered carbon for a fork. The steel was $20 carbon was $100. So I have already failed the snob thing.

Hay how is P3 ? I thought it was pee is # 1 and poop was #2 . The older I get the less I know.

Dirt

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

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60mm set back, further back than where JC set me up a few years ago, experimented with really dropping the front end, DS had me lift it up. More photos and discussion with Kraig Willett on my site. Run fairly well off a position quite close to this one -- we had made a few small changes from IMC (documented on my site). Rode pretty well too (4:48 including flat change).

Kraig taking me into the tunnel in March (with Mister A -- I have certain hunches but it's always best to have experts advise our pals/girlfriends). The second photo is his thoughts on the intermediate step. I've got some concerns about how that will impact my IMC riding style but will give it a go in my early 05 preps.

For LP you need comfort and climbing/rollers power. Aero is a consideration but I wonder, are most of us _that_ fast? If you've ever watched Simon go up hill then it quickly becomes apparent why he wants the most comfortable/powerful position -- certainly for a course like LP that makes sense. I think that IMH is different with a longer moderate grade uphill, into the wind, to end the ride -- that is a different consideration for an elite male, perhaps. Of course, if they get slack on the draft marshalling then you have a lot of climbing in the early part of the ride that you need to get through to make-the-bunch. However, it was a fair race this year and we saw that in the overall results (not just Norman).

We should also be wary of assuming that speed = knowledge. I've seen a few truly great athletes roast themselves with inappropriate positions (fit is a subject that I know little about -- so go to people that I trust then ride the s**t out of any position before I use in a race). The Baron moderates his position for racing -- training way low then lifting the front end a bit for racing to ensure that he's nice and comfy. 2:42/2:44 off the bike in his two best races last year so there could be something in that theory.

I use a lot of glutes in this position. My quads are pretty strong though - good calf strength from all the hills that I run. I tend to do more sport specific strength training on the bike than in the gym -- that's because I am fortunate to be able to train high volume year-round (with johnthesavagae in ChCh).

Most athletes will find that their run performance stems back to their training and bike pacing, rather than their bike position. Use an appropriate training protocol, don't blow your wad in the first four hours of the race, and you'll run well.

The big gains come from superior commitment over many years, not tweaking shoulder height or a new set of wheels. IMC99=11+, IMC04=8:29.

Back to lurking...

g-man