Yea I WISH my business let me charge for product b/f I delivered it. Must be nice.

The problem most likely is Demand is greater than Supply.

Funny how some people just want to keep bashing Felt

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All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

I can understand that retailers have to do that to survive, since they are at the mercy of the bike companies and unreasonable customers.
Caught between a rock and a hard place.

As this example shows, the retailer is screwed either way.

The only solution would be to sell and pay for bikes you actually hold in your hand. But the big player bike companies don't play nice nowadays, since they can make the rules (supply and demand).

So the retailer AND customer get to carry the risk.

If I were a consumer I just would do my research and would not buy a Felt or Cervelo if I needed a new bike right now.

So it actually is your buddies fault ;-)

See normally when demand outstrips supply a well managed business will figure their shit out, and increase supply. Otherwise they're leaving money on the table.

The problem isn't the demand. The problem could be that felt is poor at communication. Or they're poor at supply chain management. Or their product managers are clueless at forecasting. But other brands with high volume sales don't have this issue...so it's not the demand that's the problem.

Nytro is showing 60cm B12's coming in on April 8. If what you say is true about Felt not making any more for 2011 (which is stupid if they still have people standing in line for them) you might want to have your LBS contact them and work something out.

Your buddy is to freaking tall that's the problem! A 60 holy shit my nuts hurt !


Thom

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Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

I would not call it bashing. I would call it pointing out an issue that needs attention. I highly doubt that Felt is outselling all the other companies who DON'T have a NEW complaint thread every week. So unless Felt grossly underestimated their bike sales this year, there seems to be a problem somewhere.

SpeedRacer1 wrote:

I would not call it bashing. I would call it pointing out an issue that needs attention. I highly doubt that Felt is outselling all the other companies who DON'T have a NEW complaint thread every week. So unless Felt grossly underestimated their bike sales this year, there seems to be a problem somewhere.

I wasn't gonna say anything, but some of your assumptions here are seriously flawed.

using your logic, if no one posts a complaint here about delivery from Trek / Specialized / whomeever, there is no delivery problem. How much of the cycling population do you think ST represents exactly? Conversely, because there are complaints here on ST, it represents a massive widespread problem. Again, how much of the cycling population do you think ST represents.

Using your logic, Felt must be outselling other companies who don't have a complaint thread......not the case. They only need to be outselling their SUPPLY. How much other suppliers are selling is immaterial.

Forecasting high-end bike sales is notoriously difficult. Ever notice how many bikes get blown out at the end of the year? Why do you think that is? Because forecasting high end sales is...wait for it.... notoriously difficult! Many companies only build a few hundred of any particular model. Spread that out over 3-5 sizes, 2 color schemes maybe and the supply for any particular size / color gets real thin, real fast.


But using the number of complaint threads on ST as a gauge of a company's performance is simply not realistic.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Esmooth,

What a terrible situation, I feel for your friend and the retailer. Obviously it is not our intention to mislead anyone in the purchasing process. Order fulfillment is not as easy as taking an order from a retailer and filling it with our manufacturer. Lead times for complete bicycles are 140-180 days and that may not include transportation via ocean cargo. Forecasting for carbon fiber material - especially proprieary designs and lay ups is even longer. Your friend and our retailer are owed an explanation. I could speculate on the specifics of this particular case but instead I'll dig into the order history for 60cm B12 and see if I can determine which shop he bought from and see if I can fill in some blanks.

I'll try to reply with an additional explanation for those that think we've overlooked the "make more bikes" idea.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

 You think however you want to think. We see a felt complaint thread every week. I don't recall seeing one about any of the other big companies. The fact that we DO see a Felt one every week would leave some to believe something is wrong here.

The population of the bicycle riders on ST compared to the rest of the bike riding world has exactly jack and crap to do with anything. Bad press is bad press. And being that ST is one of the most popular cycling websites in the world, that's the last place I would want to be getting bad press. With the way you think, you seem to be saying that Only ST users have Felt issues. I highly doubt it's just on ST.

Every week? Nope, no exageration with THAT statement.

And no, I am not saying that only ST users have Felt issues. Not even sure how you could reasonably make such an interpretation of my post. What I am saying is that extrapolating complaint threads on ST into any sort of real world problem is, at best, a stretch. ST is a very small percentage of the cycling world, a slightly larger percentage of high end market and an even larger percentage of the tri bike market. But still a very small percentage, even in those segments.

And the percentage of the cycling world that ST represents has EVERYTHING to do with my point - you cannot extrapolate a small base into the world at large because it is likely not representative of the "real world."

Even assuming your assertion re: the number of Felt threads is true, there can be any number of reasonable explanations - maybe people who are having delivery issues from other companies aren't starting threads about it, maybe those companies grossly overforecasted their sales and ahve an abundance of stock (given that, I'd take the Felt "problems" any day of the week), etc. It doesn't mean that their aren't delivery problems, or that the amount of delivery issues associated with Felt aren't being over-represented.

SD just laid out the timelines required for forecasting high end bikes. his post goes hand in hand with my point re: the difficulty in forecasting high end sales.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

well said....

What I don't understand is why the bike was paid for before receiving it ...?

I've also ordered a bike for about 3000 USD in November. It is still not here. I didn't make a payment (not a single Euro as I'm in Germany) in advance.
I'll pay it when I receive it.

Frank

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

So, let me get this straight. You put NO money down on the bike ? So how serious are you about this bike ? Say for example the bikes ordered , comes in and you change your mind (for whatever reason). The bike shop is stuck with your frame (cost + shipping).

I think 20% down is fair. Just saying

Yes, no money in advance. Of course they know me well (my family already bought several bikes there) and rely on me that I take the ordered bike. I'm not sure if they'd do this with a stranger.

Frank

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

Try getting a Cannondale CAAD10. Depending on which one, you'll be loping at one to four month wait.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Seems like delays this year is common. Consumers are opening their wallets (great news) but the mfg's are still concerned with maintaining low inventories. They are probably satisfied with projecting small increases in revenue, than committing to huge jumps in demand and possibly getting burned spending borrowed cash to produce the machines and not being to meet those obligations. That how you go bankrupt quick.


That being said, paying 100% up front even for a completely custom hand built on-off machine is not a good practice. It give the consumer no immediate recourse at the time of delivery since the retailer has their money already. Also, even with the rescent downturn this week, my 401k yielded around 4% on average over that time frame... so I'd want some interest if they aren't going to deliver. When someone borrows my money, I'd like at least a 12% APR.


Personaly, I put down 10%, which I thought was fair. The dealer deserves something if I change my mind and they are left holding that inventory. IT alos makes sure that the customer is unlikely to change their mind.


Perhaps because this was a 60cm, which is something like a 1% size or less that they would struggle ot sell, they wanted full price up front. THey might have only wanted 50% maybe for more common 54-58 sizes.




I'd work on having the dealer getting you a B14 or 16 like mentioned, and offer it within perhaps 5% of cost along with any accessories I wanted at 40% off (a small profit remaining). Now if the dealer had immediately said "but I can get you this B14/16 instead". Then it would have been time take legal action. That could be considered a bait and switch tactic.


Although at this point.... legally, the only thing they have to do now, is refund his money if there are no other solutions.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Some guidance as to why my post got deleted here?

People are just more excited to receive their Felt bicycle than, for example, a Speed Concept. Speed Concepts, Cervelos, Orbea's, etc., are just so boring to look at that noone cares when they come in. A brand new Felt is just an awesome experience. Felt knows of this awesomeness, and chooses to increase it by decreasing supply.

Before there are flames, please note the facetious rhetoric in this post...

SuperDave, I appreciate the response. I will DM you some of the details. Hopefully you can help him out.

  I'm guessing you ride a felt. If so, that's your problem, not mine!

And like last week when I said there is one of these Felt problem threads and someone rolled their eyes, here you are this week.

And again, I don't care what you say or how you try and twist your 4 page long percentage posts. Trust me, if there are a lot of people complaining here on ST, then more than likely, there are upset people everywhere. End of story

I agree with you in that I think manufacturers are kind of shy to over produce. As I understand it, Felt relies on dealers to predict sales. The prediction is, "How many of each model do you want delivered to you?" Of course dealers don't want to be stuck with inventory either so they order few, probably ordering only enough to satisfy consumers who have ordered through them (maybe some larger stores will warehouse some). Felt, in an effort to to keep prices competitive builds no margin into their production schedule and so when consumer demand exceeds the LBS predictions, there are no bikes to fulfill those later orders.
I am, and willing to bet others here, too might pay $100 or so extra if it meant Felt building a few more than ordered and getting bikes into consumer hands quicker. As it is, I've been waiting since October for a B12. Last I heard, it was actually on a boat headed this way, but I have no hopes of it being here in time for my April 10th race - pretty disappointed about that.
I think Felt may have cut bike prices too far - to where it has impacted customer service. A nicely priced bike is of no use when you can't get one.

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Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.

What bike do you ride?

Lol I kid, I kid.

I CAN'T ride. I ordered my Felt in December of 1998 and it's still not here yet. My lbs keeps telling me any day now. lol

I have a worst case scenario solution, I just need to work backwards and exhaust all possible options. I'll be in Taiwan and Europe over the next few weeks so if there is a 60cm B12 on the planet, I'll get it. In the mean time, I'll work with our sales department to communicate a few additional options.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era