Really? They cancel a whole race and they don't refund you the money? That's new to me for sure!

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Paulo Matos

No offense but...really? Races essentially never refund an entry fee when they get canceled

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Really? They cancel a whole race and they don't refund you the money? That's new to me for sure![/quote]
Basically never a refund if a race is canceled because of weather. Got to read the fine print.

Greg and Kinetic are absolutely top notch. The best race organization you will find out there

Had no idea. I always thought that if race is shortened you should get a discount but if cancelled then you should get the money back. Sounds strange not racing at all and seeing your money go just like that.

The only example I have is from Zell am See this year where they cancelled the bike portion and gave a voucher of 100EUR for an IM branded race, which was fair I think.

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Paulo Matos

Fair enough. Yeah unfortunately it’s incluced in the waiver you sign for most races that you won’t be getting anything back in the event of (weather, usually) cancellation. Obviously this results in a lot of frustration - See the recent discussion about Nation’s Tri being cancelled last weekend. Kinetic is, and always has been I think, on an entirely different level of customer service

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I can imagine the frustration. If IM, or any other, would cancel my A race and not even give me my money back I would be pretty pissed off but I would also understand that I agreed to these rules when I registered.

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Paulo Matos

Yeah unfortunately it’s incluced in the waiver you sign


The waiver is just a formalized way for the Company to rip you off. Legally, they can do anything as long as it's in a waiver, but that doesn't make it right. I understand there are a majority of the costs that have been incurred but couldn't they get insurance coverage to compensate their costs in case of an act of nature?

Probably. I’m definitely not saying no refunds is the right way to do things. Just that it should be an expectation at most races you sign up for

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I understand there are a majority of the costs that have been incurred but couldn't they get insurance coverage to compensate their costs in case of an act of nature?


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I'd be curious to see if athletes would pay an extra $25/$33 for race insurance. Hell, many of my athletes for local events have simply started paying for races the week of. We generally don't have all that many races sell out, so they simply wait until the week of to make sure it's on. Of course for some events it sells out quicker, but that's their solution to this type of issue. They'd rather pay a little more instead of "spending" money on something they cant use in instance like this (even if they get a discounted race entry next year, etc.).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The insurance would increase your costs, and then if the act of nature did not fit exactly into the terms of the contract, they still would not get their funding
back.

Plus, permits and fees paid to the government are never returned when the weather cancels an event, so those costs, along with salaries to paid employees, are sunk costs and not recoverable.

The waiver is not a rip off, it protects the company from unforeseeable events like forest fires, hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes from becoming the end of the triathlon organization. Most work on a shoestring (with the exception of the Ironman corp.), and would fold after one cancellation where they had to refund all race fees.

I've been in touch with the organizers of Toughman, and they have provided a code for $100 off the Toughman registration fee for anyone who was impacted by the Savageman cancellation. The race is the same day as Savageman was supposed to be.

Reach out to me if you're interested.

A bummer for all who were registered. I feel your frustration and disappointment. I have no problem with the RDs offering a 50% discount to next year's race, but no refund, when a state of emergency is declared for the state because of a hurricane.

Plus, permits and fees paid to the government are never returned when the weather cancels an event, so those costs, along with salaries to paid employees, are sunk costs and not recoverable.

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I'm wondering aloud if a "sunken" cost like paying the cops to man the race- is there any way that can ever be returned. Like why does that have to be a sunken cost? I get permits, but if your saying the cops have to be apart of the permit, I'm wondering why. And I'm wondering aloud in that doesn't it help the town + race to keep things going? And I get some things are already paid for, but salary to employees that then aren't actually doing that job, could it be changed?

(And I know you'll say no it cant)

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'm a cheapskate. I don't buy race insurance or travel insurance. I'm the guy that signs up for races 12 months in advance for the early bird discount and the stocking-cap freebie. Actually, I don't think of it as being cheap because I actually enjoy doing it. I have found if I haven't laid down the cash, I won't train the same way. I'm not disciplined enough to "mentally sign up" and then put the money down the week of the race. I did buy race insurance once when I signed up for an Ironman while laying in a hospital bed after knee surgery (and the doc telling me to stop running)....that one I wasn't 100% sure I'd be able to make the start line. I also don't buy extended warranties. I believe in "self insurance".

That said, in the future I may actually have to buy insurance for these events I travel long distances to, as this one will hurt the pocketbook a bit more. I live in KS and have traveled all over. I've done over 50 triathlons and have had 4 cancelled: 3 locals and now Savageman.

I've received a refund one time: it was a teeny tiny local race that send out refunds "less their costs". I think I signed up for $30 (yes, this was within the last 5 years) and got a refund for about $17. But again, that was a tiny event and unlike any other. I've received discounts at the other races. I think Kinetic has been more than fair by offering 50% off a future race (in 2019). I am a bit perplexed they didn't extend the offer to any of their other 2018 events (10% discount offered), but I have no complaints with the way they've handled this. I

Respectfully, but have you been living under a rock or are you brand new to events? As noted above, the organizers have already invested a good deal of sunk costs before race day. Many smaller event production companies would go bankrupt if they had to return all registration fees. Everyone of them puts in their waiver that you are owed NOTHING in the event of the canx so if you get ANYTHING, you should be happy.

Over the years, I've suffered several race cancellations. Some have not offered so much as a "we're sorry", while others have gone out of their way to make it up to athletes. My favorite example is a local sprint tri usually held in Sep. Twice in the past 10 years they were forced to cancel for weather, but postponed the event to October and gave a 50% discount for the following year for any athletes who could not make the rescheduled date.

Truly a bummer for the athletes who were registered, but it happens, and will happen again. Just don't bitch at the RD when it does.

Here is an example of what we would save if we had to cancel.
Volunteer organization putting on one event per year.

Our expenses are 84% of our registration fee income.
A cancellation 5 days before our event would result in savings for Prize Money ($3700), Food ($1800), Policing ($2100), Porta-Potties ($800). But the event would also not receive any race day registrations so take $3000 from the savings. The timing company still gets paid as per contract. Policing may even require payment so close to the event. So possibly a savings $5400. That reduces my expenses to revenue to 69%.

So, max we could do is discount 30% the following year.
Fact is, if it did happen, there would not be a next year. Not worth the hassle.

Race insurance on Active.com is like $10/race...but I've never purchased it and never had to us it.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Seems reasonable of the Organisers. There's not a lot you can do about a Hurricane. If you want all of your entry refunded, then expect to pay premium to cover that, in the form of Insurance (some races I've done offer this as an extra).

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29 years and counting

Barrelman (Niagara Falls) is offering a 'deal', not sure what the offer is.

We are aware of some race cancellations along the east coast because of the hurricane... some athletes have reached out from other races to come do Barrelman instead.. if you know any athletes in this situation please have them email claire@multisportcanada.com as we are making special arrangements for those facing other race cancellations.

There is still uncertainty but it does now look like Deep Creek will have nice weather this weekend. I hope this doesn't set off a bunch of whining (a la the NYC marathon) just because Greg et al prudently opted to cancel early when things looked more dire for the area. Remember several things: 1. there is a state of emergency in Maryland. That means lots of public-safety resources are spoken for and aren't available for a race; 2. the area has had loads of rain recently and even the rain that's predicted for Friday could cause more damage; & 3. given what's about to happen in NC and southern Virginia it's a certainty that Maryland will start sending public safety and other personnel south to help. It's just not a great time for a race. It sucks. I look forward to SM every year but it's just a race.

Hey but for those folks still planning on going to Deep Creek, it looks like the weather will be nice or at least nice-ish. There's nothing stopping a few runs up the Wall (other than gravity). Just be considerate of the folks who live there. I'll pack up my soapbox now.

Straight off the Savageman website. Not sure if the insurance covers weather as the online registration isn't open anymore to see more details. But they do offer optional forms of insurance. And they are crystal clear about their policy in their FAQ.

Race registration fees are non-refundable. If you think there is a reasonable chance that you may not be able to participate and may want a refund, you may purchase race insurance with your registration. Only those who purchase registration insurance will be granted refunds. Bottom line, if you think you may need a refund, purchase the insurance.


Hurricanes – If a massive weather system such as a hurricane is bearing down on a race site we will notify athletes as soon as possible about the potential for cancellation. Storm tracks change and it is not possible to predict with 100% accuracy where a system will go and what it’s impacts will be. Look for communication from us several days prior to the race.
Water Quality – We test the water quality at all our venues. If the water is not safe to swim in due to elevated bacteria levels or other concerns, we will change to a duathlon format.
Cancellation – Should this event be cancelled due to weather, an Act of God, or circumstances beyond the control of the event we will give athletes a credit good for 50% of your registration fee for any race produced by our team in the following year. So, if you paid $120 to race, you will receive a coupon good for $60 off any race that we do. We will also mail out racer swag, please be patient as this process takes time. It is extremely rare to have to cancel an event. Over 14 years and 450 events we have only had to cancel 3 events. Two due to hurricanes and one due to extreme heat. (Please note that this weather policy is agreed to during the registration process)

Yes, the storm moved southward and will completely miss Maryland. But earlier this week no one really knew what the storm would do. Weather forecasting computer models can only do so much. So I don't blame organizers for cancelling this type of thing. It's just bad luck.

They probably could. So could you.

Just replying in general: Just read on FB that John Salt has arranged a special offer to athletes that were planning to do Savageman, to come do Barrleman this weekend. Apparently there's an email going out from the RD to athletes who were affected.

I know it won't work for everyone, but still an awesome gesture by John to reach out and extend an opportunity!