Tried Hokas and still do as I need to know them. Don't own a single pair as they are not for me either by fit or feel. So:
1. No, did not move.
2. Train in Shift, Speed and race in either Pro 3 or Elite.

I've not seen the Kinvara Pro, only the display model the rep had, but it seems the price point for that shoe puts it in a category duplicated by others. It surprises me they drop the Shift and bring that shoe in, but I don't make those decisions.

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Kiwami Racing Team

1. No
2. Kinvara 12 for shorter, speedy-ish work, Endorphin Speed 2 for longer, speedy-ish work and Triumph 19 for long days (wife roped me into a 1/2M that I was not planning on, so I'm increasing my miles and bought the Triumph for exactly this reason). Endorphin Pro only for pre-race tune ups - these are my race shoes. I use other brands in my rotation, but I have used primarily Saucony for 12+ years - I had the Kinvara 1 when it was just the Kinvara!

I've been a Kinvara loyalist for years. I run in them almost exclusively and have for years. Both training and racing for the most part, but I did dabble with the Endorphin Pro for racing this season.

I have the off pair of Brooks or On, but always multiple pairs of Kinvara in rotation.

1. Yes
2. Triumph 20

Liked the cushion and felt bouncier than my Hoka Rincons or Mach 5.

i note the following shoe height metrics, heel and forefoot:

kinvara pro: 42mm/34mm
kinvara 14: 31mm/27mm
kinvara 13: 28.5mm/24.5mm
kinvara 10: 23mm/19mm
kinvara 5: 22mm/18mm

have you run in the kinvara pro? how has the gradually increasing height of the shoe struck you? better, worse, not noticeable?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

1. No
2. Endorphin Speed mainly, but Peregrine Ice in the winter if it’s slippery out.

gary, when i asked slowtwitchers about the endorphine line, just under 2 years ago, i got 75 responses and yours was among them. if you go through that thread it seems to me everybody loved the speed and/or the pro, and the response to the shift was much less enthusiastic. it seems like people want energy return, they're very foam-centric, and the shift didn't have superfoam. runners want superfoam (tho i'm happy to hear i'm wrong about this, by folks on the front line as you are), and i think one reason HOKA might be losing ground to ASICS and saucony is that HOKA has never been a leader in midsole foam. if foam is the secret sauce, then the shift is the casualty of that.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

1. No
2. Ride 13 or 14?

I'd try Hoka, but I'm cheap and Saucony has worked well for me for 20+ years.

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Great things never come from comfort zones.

1. Yes - i ran a 4-5 seasons with Clifton/Elevon as my recovery/slower run shoe and the Mach as my faster run shoe/race shoe. I also bought up a bunch of the Clifton 1 re-issues as they were a great daily trainer for me.

2. Last season I had a rotation using the Elevon as a recovery shoe, Mach 5 for long runs and added the Saucony Speed 2 for tempo/faster stuff. This season, my rotation has come down to Nike React Infinity for recovery runs (solid recovery shoe) and Saucony Speed 3 for tempo and longer runs.

A little more intel on my thinking with the shift from Hoka to Saucony. I love the support I get with Hoka's. The Clifton's can be hit or miss with me though, so while I'm not in them this year, I might come back for the next model. The Mach 5 was a great shoe, but the endorphin speed 3 does everything the Mach does, and more. I'd like to add a third shoe to the rotation, but don't see where I would slot it in with the Speed 3 ticking so many boxes right now.

The endorphin speed 3 is one of the best shoes I have run in. They seemed to solve my biggest issue with the speed 2, I felt like the heel was razor thin and as a heel striker, my margin for getting injured was smaller than I liked. With the larger heel area on the speed threes, I feel like I'm running in a Mach 5, but with a plate and springier foam.

1 No.
2 Endorphin Speed 1, 2, and have just purchased a 3 (my 1 finally died). Endorphin Pros for racing.

Yes, I went from Hoka to Saucony

Triumph 19 and 20

1. The molded in arch in the Hokas make them a no-go for me. Tried them on several times, but never owned a pair.

2. Training in the Endorphin Speed (got several pairs on sale when they phased out the original).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

1. No
2. Shifts for shorter easy runs, Pro 1s or 2s for longer and/or harder runs. Also went through a pair of Speeds.

Honestly, I'm someone who doesn't notice a huge difference between shoes across brands, and I've generally been able to find the Endorphin series (including older-model Pros) for $75 or at most $100.

I have not actually. I hadn't really heard of them or looked into them. Just looking at the picture, that height is a little much

I can't say the increasing height was something I noticed, but you listing the numbers is interesting. I always focused on the drop which stayed about the same....

There were models I liked more than others for sure, but I think it was more about the material of the upper. The 14s are nice. Very comfortable The 13's are solid. Not a huge fan of the 12s....

I wanna say it was the Kinvara 4 that I thought was the best shoe ever....at the time...and what made me stick with it.

Kinvara Pro is a different shoe. Would almost call it a Triumph lite with a plate in it.

Also note that the original generation Kinvara's (through 6, if my memory serves me correctly) were all surprisingly soft for the midsole height. As they've gotten older, the foam formulation has changed, which made the shoe more durable but less soft feeling underfoot. The answer, naturally, is MOAR FOAM.

Still nice. But kinda like how the Clifton has changed, so too has the Kinvara. But it's not really a cushioning story. It's a "providing a relatively similar running experience with a slightly more durable foam in there, which caused more foam to be there than before" story.

This is where I pour one out for the Mirage. I put 800 miles on a pair of those.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

1. No
2. Training in the Tempus (a bit more support), Racing in Endorphin Pro 3 and Endorphin Elite

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~Zac

the ''3'' update to the Speed is one of the best shoe updates i've ever come across. it's a legitimately fantastic shoe, and i REALY liked the 1 and 2 (which, for all intents and purposes, were basically the same shoe).

the shift was a poor debut and i have not tried either of the updated versions. the pro is also a very good shoe, as is the 2 and 3, but not a just absolutely "do it all" shoe like the speed (1, 2, and 3) is.

fwiw, i do easy runs in a novablast 2 or superblast (won't buy the superblast again, it's not worth $200).

The Endorphin Speed 3 is the best trainer on the market by a wide margin. It's basically perfect for any and all fast non-racing running.

I rotate between On Cloudmonster and Nike Invincible Run for easier runs.

there have been 3 different major changes in shoe height over the kinvara's history (excluding the kinvara pro which, as you say, is kind of like the clifton edge - if you remember that - that bore no resemblance to the clifton at all). you're saying that for each of these 3 shoe heights (which are major differences, as the tallest is half-again taller than the original) there are successively firmer durometer midsole foams. we know this? (i ask because, as opposed to bike brands, shoe brands are big on trotting out their tech-oriented registered trademarks, but not big on actually providing measured data on their materials).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Although they aren't throwing durometer measurements out there...yeah.

It's a bit more durable than it used to be. It's also a little less flexible than it used to be, especially in the forefoot.

I've always loved the Kinvara.

I can't figure out the purpose of the Tempus, but that's for another day.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

1. No
2. Endorphin Speed 3, occasionally the Endorphin Pro 3 but I mostly save them for racing.

Started with Saucony when I started training a little over a year ago. Triumph 19s for everything. Now I'm onto the triumph 20s. 20s are even better IMO.

I did try hokas in the meantime, bondis, and hated them. The molded insole part rubbed terrible blisters with two different sizes. Haven't considered them since.

Just got some endorphin elites for racing.

HOKA does not work for me, caused PF issues badly and the only time I ever had a PF issue was the Clifton and Bondi. Runs 45 min and less were OK but anything longer was a problem.

I train exclusively in the Endorphin Pro because the 2s were so cheap everywhere. I got 6 pairs for less than $100 each. Once those are gone, I'll use the cheaper version of the line.
Recovery is significantly better in the Pro vs the Cumulus/Nimbus/Ride shoes I used to train in.

1. No
2. Triumph 20, Kinvara 13 and race in Pro 2's as of right now.

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