Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
it snowed again...

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Swam the 200 yard butterfly at the Illinois Masters State Meet. Didn't go as well as I expected. I envisioned going out the first 50 in the mid 34's, and splitting mid 38's for the remaining three 50's, finishing around 2:30. I wasn't too far off plan for the first three 50's; splitting 35.3, 39.2, and 39.6. I started losing steam on the 7th 25, though, and the piano landed on me coming out of the last turn. I ended up splitting 43.8 on the last 50, and finishing with a time of 2:38.05. I wasn't even that winded at the end, more sore and stiff. For the last 15 yards, I felt like the 8-and-under kids look when they first learn to swim fly. I could barely get my arms out of the water.

I won my age group, but it was much more a matter of guessing correctly where the faster swimmers wouldn't be than putting in a championship-worthy swim. For some perspective, in the heat after mine, David Sims set a new men's 55-59 National Record with a 2:01.67 :o

I'm not too disappointed, though. A year ago, if you'd have asked me to swim a 200 fly, I don't even know if I could have finished. If so, I wouldn't have been anywhere near 2:38. The piano would have come at me at least 75 yards earlier. I had very little basis upon which to build expectations for what I could possibly do in this event. Now I have something concrete to work from.

I'm gonna keep working on this event next year, but I've decided to not swim it at Spring Nationals as I'd be really far off the pace. I have a good seed for the 1000 free, and will be spending the last 3 weeks of my season honing that.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Apr 21, 18 5:49
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
Swam the 200 yard butterfly at the Illinois Masters State Meet. Didn't go as well as I expected. I envisioned going out the first 50 in the mid 34's, and splitting mid 38's for the remaining three 50's, finishing around 2:30. I wasn't too far off plan for the first three 50's; splitting 35.3, 39.2, and 39.6. I started losing steam on the 7th 25, though, and the piano landed on me coming out of the last turn. I ended up splitting 43.8 on the last 50, and finishing with a time of 2:38.05. I wasn't even that winded at the end, more sore and stiff. For the last 15 yards, I felt like the 8-and-under kids look when they first learn to swim fly. I could barely get my arms out of the water.

I won my age group, but it was much more a matter of guessing correctly where the faster swimmers wouldn't be than putting in a championship-worthy swim. For some perspective, in the heat after mine, David Sims set a new men's 55-59 National Record with a 2:01.67 :o

I'm not too disappointed, though. A year ago, if you'd have asked me to swim a 200 fly, I don't even know if I could have finished. If so, I wouldn't have been anywhere near 2:38. The piano would have come at me at least 75 yards earlier. I had very little basis upon which to build expectations for what I could possibly do in this event. Now I have something concrete to work from.

I'm gonna keep working on this event next year, but I've decided to not swim it at Spring Nationals as I'd be really far off the pace. I have a good seed for the 1000 free, and will be spending the last 3 weeks of my season honing that.

Hey, huge congrats! That is awesome that you made such huge progress!!!! But before you don't do it at Spring Nationals, I'd say you should re evaluate. I THINK you can train for both at the same time (not optimally, but 3 minute energy and say 12-13 minute energy systems are similar...it would be different from training for 50 fly vs 1000y free). I would think the 200 fly training will really help your last 200y in the 1000 yd free anyway.

By the way, the piano on the back feeling is it because the legs and core are not generating enough propulsion to lift shoulders and neck high enough without enough forward velocity, or lack of pull. My thought is it is the legs and core, because this never happens when there is more propulsion with fins. I will try a 200 fly with fins in practice to as I have never done more than 50 at a time with fins on.

I am doing both the 200 fly and 1500 free at Ontario Masters in 2 weeks. I have not done any training at all for the 1500m and have low expectations. I have a solid line up and going to get more experience (400 IM, 100 fly, 1500 free on Friday evening, 100 IM, 200 fly, 400 free. I am hoping to get into some relays too. Just doing as many events as possible in two days that they will let me.
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Way to put yourself out there Gary, that is the only event that actually scares me..And if you graph your splits, it will look similar to all the other people who swim it, only with a little steeper line towards the end..(-;

I dont recall who said it to you, but I do remember someone saying you dont need to do that much fly if you are doing a lot of free, that is just plain wrong. Especially for a masters swimmer. If you want to do a good "200" fly, then you just have to do a lot of slogging in workouts with both arms. Dev asked if it is your kick failing, or your core. No, it is not. It is just your arms load up and they will not even make the recovery to enter the next stroke. And when that happens you whole back end falls down, doesn't matter if you have kick/core left or not.

Now not to say those two things are not important, but when you cannot even get your arms out of the water, they are not going to save you. They may give you an extra 3 strokes beyond where you would have been, but they do not lift that piano off your back. My advice is to just do a lot more fly sets, and in a fatigued state. Sets like 50's with lots of rest really fast are great, but you also need to be able to do those 38's tired. That is also when you are focusing on your core too, learning how to swim survival, but also keeping most your body in a flat plane on the water.

I'm approaching the time where I'm going to start doing a lot more fly, 50's feel great now and I have that false sense that I could actually do a 200 too, but I know better. All you have to do is a set of 100's on short rest to see how quickly you fall apart. So doing some actual 200's in workout is a good way to go, start with doing some kick, kick, pull in the middle to get through them, and gradually eliminate those cheater strokes until you are really swimming the whole way.

It is hard as fly is just so power intensive, even when going easy, but that is why you just have to do more of it..
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I said that. Reason is it is counterproductive (in my view anyway) to swim fly poorly, with poor timing, etc. Slogging through poorly swum fly isn't really getting you any fitter than hard freestyle sets and hard kick sets.

Even when I was in college, a lot of my fly work was done as one-arm fly. Seemed to work ok, 2fly was my strongest event.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Way to put yourself out there Gary, that is the only event that actually scares me..And if you graph your splits, it will look similar to all the other people who swim it, only with a little steeper line towards the end..(-;

I dont recall who said it to you, but I do remember someone saying you dont need to do that much fly if you are doing a lot of free, that is just plain wrong. Especially for a masters swimmer. If you want to do a good "200" fly, then you just have to do a lot of slogging in workouts with both arms. Dev asked if it is your kick failing, or your core. No, it is not. It is just your arms load up and they will not even make the recovery to enter the next stroke. And when that happens you whole back end falls down, doesn't matter if you have kick/core left or not.

Now not to say those two things are not important, but when you cannot even get your arms out of the water, they are not going to save you. They may give you an extra 3 strokes beyond where you would have been, but they do not lift that piano off your back. My advice is to just do a lot more fly sets, and in a fatigued state. Sets like 50's with lots of rest really fast are great, but you also need to be able to do those 38's tired. That is also when you are focusing on your core too, learning how to swim survival, but also keeping most your body in a flat plane on the water.

I'm approaching the time where I'm going to start doing a lot more fly, 50's feel great now and I have that false sense that I could actually do a 200 too, but I know better. All you have to do is a set of 100's on short rest to see how quickly you fall apart. So doing some actual 200's in workout is a good way to go, start with doing some kick, kick, pull in the middle to get through them, and gradually eliminate those cheater strokes until you are really swimming the whole way.

It is hard as fly is just so power intensive, even when going easy, but that is why you just have to do more of it..

Monty to your point, today I am going to do 6x200m 100fly-100 free. I have not been doing much 100 fly in training lately as I have been focused on IM and I am fearing the 200 fly in 2 weeks. I figure the above 6x200 fly-free covers the training for the 1500m too.

I actually have this one "main set that goes like this"

200m IM "easy"
200m IM "as hard as possible
long rest
200 fly "start moderate, deal with the piano"
long rest
400 IM "as hard as possible"

Mainly at my stage of swimming development it is to actually rehearse the event to know how to pace them and what I need to do tactically to execute. The rest of you swimmer guys have done it all your life, and unlike an Ironman where the best way to do an Ironman fast IS TO NOT DO EVENT SIMULATIONS IN TRAINING (because it is too long), for swimming I can and acquire experience.


Dev
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
Swam the 200 yard butterfly at the Illinois Masters State Meet. Didn't go as well as I expected. I envisioned going out the first 50 in the mid 34's, and splitting mid 38's for the remaining three 50's, finishing around 2:30. I wasn't too far off plan for the first three 50's; splitting 35.3, 39.2, and 39.6. I started losing steam on the 7th 25, though, and the piano landed on me coming out of the last turn. I ended up splitting 43.8 on the last 50, and finishing with a time of 2:38.05. I wasn't even that winded at the end, more sore and stiff. For the last 15 yards, I felt like the 8-and-under kids look when they first learn to swim fly. I could barely get my arms out of the water.

I won my age group, but it was much more a matter of guessing correctly where the faster swimmers wouldn't be than putting in a championship-worthy swim. For some perspective, in the heat after mine, David Sims set a new men's 55-59 National Record with a 2:01.67 :o

I'm not too disappointed, though. A year ago, if you'd have asked me to swim a 200 fly, I don't even know if I could have finished. If so, I wouldn't have been anywhere near 2:38. The piano would have come at me at least 75 yards earlier. I had very little basis upon which to build expectations for what I could possibly do in this event. Now I have something concrete to work from.

I'm gonna keep working on this event next year, but I've decided to not swim it at Spring Nationals as I'd be really far off the pace. I have a good seed for the 1000 free, and will be spending the last 3 weeks of my season honing that.

Well done, really. So you split a 14 and s 24, for a 10s fade, For your first 2fly that's a solid swim, and pretty much in line with what you should expect. As a point of reference, my first masters 2fly was similar , I think I split a 1:09 followed by a 1:21 for s 2:30. The next time was better (I think that was a 7 followed by a 14 for a 2:21).

2fly is really about learning how to really hold back and relax for the first 150.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Even when I was in college, a lot of my fly work was done as one-arm fly. Seemed to work ok, 2fly was my strongest event. //

Yes, but none of us are in college anymore, we have all left Kansas Dorthy. And I like the one arm fly too, as well as the kick kick pull version to get through rough spots, so that you can finish with a somewhat decent stroke. Yes it is not really beneficial to swim sets if you are up and down, except to experience that, and know what it feels like. But we are masters now, so doing 50% fly workouts is still not going to be anywhere near the yardages of fly we used to swim.


10 to 15% back in the day is like 100% today(counting yards), so hard to make a plan base on what we used to do. There is no amount or type of freestyle that is getting me ready for a 200 fly. Sure it gets you aerobically fit and ready for a 2+ minute effort, but it is not going to get you over the fatigue that is special to that fly event.


Now the closer you are to your old college days it may take less, but that old memory fades as time goes on, like everything else..(-;

Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
im not saying you don't have to do fly in practice, you absolutely do. But what I'm saying is that the fitness side can come from doing freestyle work, and the fly work is about ingrainung technique. It's all the same muscles you're using in fly vs free anyway.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Even when I was in college, a lot of my fly work was done as one-arm fly. Seemed to work ok, 2fly was my strongest event. //

Yes, but none of us are in college anymore, we have all left Kansas Dorthy. And I like the one arm fly too, as well as the kick kick pull version to get through rough spots, so that you can finish with a somewhat decent stroke. Yes it is not really beneficial to swim sets if you are up and down, except to experience that, and know what it feels like. But we are masters now, so doing 50% fly workouts is still not going to be anywhere near the yardages of fly we used to swim.


10 to 15% back in the day is like 100% today(counting yards), so hard to make a plan base on what we used to do. There is no amount or type of freestyle that is getting me ready for a 200 fly. Sure it gets you aerobically fit and ready for a 2+ minute effort, but it is not going to get you over the fatigue that is special to that fly event.


Now the closer you are to your old college days it may take less, but that old memory fades as time goes on, like everything else..(-;


OK, I showed up to the pool late, and there were only 27 minutes left, so during the first 100m I concocted this this workout

100m free warmup
25 fly-25 free
50 fly-50 free
75 fly-75 free
100 fly-100 free

This was all continuous swimming so that that point I though about this thread and launched directly into a 200 fly no rest....so the rest of the workout was

200 fly-100 free
100 fly-100 free
75 fly -75 free
50 fly- 50 free
25 fly-25 free
100 free

In the end it was a 1500m continuous swim with half of it fly with a 200 fly in the middle.

This is an old track pyramid set I used to do...but multiply all distances by 4 and replace the "fly" with "interval" and the "free with "jogging". I just beat them taking down the lanes and then public swim began and they put the shallow end deep end divider ropes up meaning the rest of the workout was a gong show, but at least I got an awesome "main set in" which I concocted on the fly from my old track days. I love if when you finish the biggest interval in a pyramid and can start opening up the tank as the "on part" gets shorter and shorter.

To make it through, I did a hard wall push off every time and glided reasonably far and did two soft dolphin kicks to maximize rest vs oxygen vs giving the arms a break.

As I never swam in college but ran back then I just pulled out an old track "set" and applied it in the pool. I barely survived but it was fun.

Also yesterday when I saw this image of Pereira vs Phelps I realized that something was wrong with how my body is entering:

https://media.gettyimages.com/...IsLgUlFisj6bl3d8cCY=

These guys already have their back hunched over like a dolphin and chest concave getting ready to enter with a head down "dive" vs "belly flop". I focused on this visualization and it helped during the 200 fly leg today.

Dev
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just tried an experiment.

For me 200 fly is around 8x12 strokes....so call it 100 strokes. Which means around 100 lat pull downs if we are going to stick with the analogy. So le't say 100 lat pull downs in 3 minutes or ~ 1 every 2 seconds. How much weight could I handle for 100 reps. Keep in mind that doing lat pull downs, there is not much aerobic limitation like real swimming, so it's just a muscle force thing so we should be able to do more "weight" than the real force we are applying in the water.

It reminds me of Eric Heiden doing light weight squats for 1 to 2 minutes for his 1000m and 1500m races to work the same energy system and working to failure by progressively increasing weight and maintaining similar cadence.


So this is what I just did to mimic a 100 fly.....12reps @70 lbs hang off weight for 3 second to mimic pushing off wall, and repeated it three more times, Total time was 1:13 for 48 reps so a bit too fast for my actual 100 fly. I think I could do this with 90 lbs as 70 lbs felt easy enough but was stll moderately hard. But I don't think I could do 100 reps continuously like this....getting close to 50 was moderately hard. For reference I weigh 140 lbs right now.

In the same vein, 3 minutes doing 100 sit ups and 3 minutes doing 200 quad extensions and 3 minutes doing 200 hamstring curls.

Now you have to combine all of them at once. Each one on their own is hard enough on dry land.

So with this experiment I can see Monty's point that most of us might just run out of lat/shoulder pull force as there is a minimum amount of force we have to apply (for our size and streamline) to do this stroke properly.
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Got Provincials coming up this weekend, I've signed up for the 200 free, 50 fly, 1500 free and 100 IM. Just hoping to beat my seed times, I'm not in great swim shape this year. Plus I've been sick all weekend. I'm gonna do an easy run at lunch today, then no more running til Sunday.

event #, event, seed time

2 - 200 free - 2:10.0
20 - 50 fly - 29.0
26 - 1500 free - 19:36.0
34 - 100 IM - 1:09.0

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Got Provincials coming up this weekend, I've signed up for the 200 free, 50 fly, 1500 free and 100 IM. Just hoping to beat my seed times, I'm not in great swim shape this year. Plus I've been sick all weekend. I'm gonna do an easy run at lunch today, then no more running til Sunday.

event #, event, seed time

2 - 200 free - 2:10.0
20 - 50 fly - 29.0
26 - 1500 free - 19:36.0
34 - 100 IM - 1:09.0

Best of luck! Those are super fast times....I need a motor, wetsuit, and fins to keep up with you for 25m even when you are out of shape!!! OK I have Swim Ontario Masters Provincials in Barrie this weekend:

My events and seed times

Fri

  • 400 IM 7:35
  • 100 fly 1:35
  • 1500m 25:30

Friday will be a killer as these are all back to back to back, but I have to do a 1500m now so that I have a time to use to get into other events.

Sat

  • 200 fly 3:30
  • 100 IM 1:35
  • 400 Free 6:20

Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wanted to do 100 fly, but it's only 2 events after the 1500 (with the 50 free between), and with our meet being such a small event there would be so little recovery time that it's not worth swimming it.

100 IM gives a bit more recovery after the 1500, plus it's an off event for me, so I'm not as invested in whether I have a good swim or not.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
I'm gonna do an easy run at lunch today, then no more running til Sunday.


K. that was supposed to be an easy run, but I felt good, so I figured "why not??" pissing down with rain here, so 5k on the dreadmill, building from 6:00/km for the first K down to 3:45/km for the last 500m. (don't laugh Dev, that's fast for me...)


Of course, treadmill mode on my Garmin didn't capture any of that blazing fast pace. It says I only did 4.3 km and maxed out at 4:58/km. So it doesn't exist...

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
I'm gonna do an easy run at lunch today, then no more running til Sunday.


K. that was supposed to be an easy run, but I felt good, so I figured "why not??" pissing down with rain here, so 5k on the dreadmill, building from 6:00/km for the first K down to 3:45/km for the last 500m. (don't laugh Dev, that's fast for me...)


Of course, treadmill mode on my Garmin didn't capture any of that blazing fast pace. It says I only did 4.3 km and maxed out at 4:58/km. So it doesn't exist...

Hey, 3:45 per K is faster than anything I can do today. The fastest I can cover a K right now is swimming....I think I can beat my walking pace!

As for recovery between events, at my stage of swimming, right now, I am just trying to acquire as much exposure to competions as possible at every meet I go to. Eventually, my technique will improve and I'll get exposed to more meet day execution and I will get to know what I need to do....then I will pick events to get the most out of myself.

Dev
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just wrapped up provincials (scm) today, did a little better than I deserve with the volume I've been doing, but not fast.

In the morning had to make trips to a couple of garden centres. Warmup for the meet was from noon to 1 pm, I got to the pool at 12:30, so it was 12:45 by the time I was on deck. I was in the 200 free (1st event), so warmup was less than optimal. 2x25 from a dive, then switch to the warmup pool for 3x50 descending at 1500 effort levels.

Wasn't feeling especially psyched for the 200. Still worked it , but had I been motivated I could have found another couple of seconds. 2:13 and change, ok considering, but not particularly fast.

50 fly was next after a long break, that went much better. Won the heat in 28.7 thanks to a strong second half. That was really my best swim of the afternoon, only .5 off my best from 2 years ago when I was able to get in about 3x the volume that I have now.

Then next was the 1500. I wanted to get this provincial record, it stood at 19:21. Plan was to swim nice and controlled for the first 1000, then build from there. Felt like I did that, but the clock got me at 19:23. That's 13 secs better than I went in the fall, so that's good, but I'm sure I made at least 2 seconds of mistakes and pacing errors in the race. Oh well, I guess I have to swim it again, I have a year and s half before I age up to 50-54.
Last was 100 I'm, but I was pretty tired by this point. No speed left, just did a 1:10.

Overall a good meet, our club won the provincial championship again, and a great time was had by all.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice work! I wish I could have gone again this year but this weekend just wasn't going to work for me. I need to go 18:37 for the 1500 in that same time frame. We need to get in a meet beside each other and pace ourselves to that.
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats on the great event off "less volume". I guess a lifetime of swimming you can go and draw upon!!! I have several questions

  1. On the 50 fly how often do you breath....same question about leg 1 of the 100 IM during the 25 fly
  2. For the 1500m, how hard are you dolphin kicking off the wall. In my case, I am doing open turns (disc), but with a push off and glide and 2 dolphin kicks, I come out 1.5m past the flags and was able to match or exceed my heat swimmers, but we're all slow anyway
  3. I think I cooked my 200 fly on day 2 by going deep in the tank at the end of the 1500m on day 1. I can't imagine you'd have much left for the 100m free after the 1500m. Just out of curiousity, how fast was your final 100m in the 1500m vs your 100m race a bit later!
  4. I heard the nationals will be on Montreal next year. Will you go? I will and now that I have a 1500m time, I can enter (I still think it is stupid that they won't let those of us who had a "provincials" on May 4th do the 1500m at Nationals 2 weeks later because of their arbitrary cut off of April 28th, but they have May 5th cut off for relays....but that's a different rant.

I'll post some details of my swim meet shortly.


Dev
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
50 fly, not sure, but I think I did 2 breaths down, 3 back. Anything longer I'll breathe every stroke, but I might experiment next season with a 2-1 or 2-1-1 pattern.

100 IM, its every stroke, since I was to have a good dolphin kick off the wall on the backstroke I surface at about 12-13 m off the turn.

1500, dolphin kick varies throughout the race. First 100 I'll do 2 kicks off the wall, then after that it's one or none, until the last 200, then I'll start going longer when I can. I didn't use my legs much at all between the 100 and the 1200 marks, which I could be a bit more aggressive with next time. I'm still figuring out how to swim a good 1500, what the pacing should feel like. I didn't get splits for the race, unfortunately. I'm guessing my last 100 of the 1500 was a 1:14 or 15, but I really don't know for sure

I'd like to go to Montreal next year, had a great time when I went there a couple of years ago. I'll need to bump up my swim volume though, I would not be happy with my current speed at nationals.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
50 fly, not sure, but I think I did 2 breaths down, 3 back. Anything longer I'll breathe every stroke, but I might experiment next season with a 2-1 or 2-1-1 pattern.

100 IM, its every stroke, since I was to have a good dolphin kick off the wall on the backstroke I surface at about 12-13 m off the turn.

1500, dolphin kick varies throughout the race. First 100 I'll do 2 kicks off the wall, then after that it's one or none, until the last 200, then I'll start going longer when I can. I didn't use my legs much at all between the 100 and the 1200 marks, which I could be a bit more aggressive with next time. I'm still figuring out how to swim a good 1500, what the pacing should feel like. I didn't get splits for the race, unfortunately. I'm guessing my last 100 of the 1500 was a 1:14 or 15, but I really don't know for sure

I'd like to go to Montreal next year, had a great time when I went there a couple of years ago. I'll need to bump up my swim volume though, I would not be happy with my current speed at nationals.

thanks for the visibility into your tactics at your level. This is useful to know what good swimmers do. I did not think about breathing every stroke in the 100 IM fly outbound leg to maximize undewater during the backstroke. This would be really helpful for me since my backstroke is so bad!
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
OK here is how my meet went.

I drove on Friday from Ottawa to Barrie via Toronto....took the 401 route rather than backroads as I had several conf calls I needed to be on, so I wanted a straight up highway route...well, until I got caught in Toronto Friday afternoon traffic.....oooops, now I was barely going to make it there on time for my 400IM. So I get in and have 15 min of warming up from being cramped in on a 6 hour drive/traffic mess and now I have to launch into my day.

My left leg was feeling weaker than ever from the nerve being compressed in the car....so I took the opening 100 fly "easier" and just felt off....got through the back leg and then going into breast....bam my right calf and foot cramp probably from having foot on and off on the accelerator for 6 hours. I barely made it across for the next 25 and the cramp subsided on the next push off and I was good to go. I had wanted a time of 7:35 and was actually surprised to hit 7:33. 7:30 would be ideal!

2 Paul, Devashish 53 SO-M 7:30.00 7:33.87 25 50.54 1:47.01 (56.47) 2:46.47 (59.46) 3:44.95 (58.48) 4:53.43 (1:08.48) 5:56.72 (1:03.29) 6:45.59 (48.87) 7:33.87 (48.28)

Next up was the 100 fly, but there was only 1 heat of 400 IM after me and then 2-3 heats of women's 100 fly before me, and then I was on deck....not much there to give after the 400 IM...I really wanted to hit 1:35 went through 50m at 46 second and thought a 49 gets me into the goal and totally died....1:39....just not enough rest after the 400IM...plus the drive

1 Paul, Devashish 53 SO-M 1:35.00 1:39.43 30 46.70 1:39.43 (52.73)

Then I had 1.5 hours to recoup for the 1500m. Counters worked awesome...I just put down my head and swam. My left leg was kind of useless and creating a lot of drag, but I just sucked it up and went..below are my splits...I was surprised that I pretty well even split all of the 50's given that i have never done this race in a pool.

5 Paul, Devashish 53 SO-M 25:00.00 24:47.18 14 47.98 1:38.08 (50.10) 2:28.04 (49.96) 3:17.77 (49.73) 4:07.66 (49.89) 4:56.86 (49.20) 5:45.88 (49.02) 6:35.49 (49.61) 7:25.19 (49.70) 8:15.56 (50.37) 9:06.10 (50.54) 9:56.74 (50.64) 10:46.16 (49.42) 11:35.05 (48.89) 12:24.61 (49.56) 13:13.46 (48.85) 14:03.65 (50.19) 14:54.05 (50.40) 15:43.98 (49.93) 16:33.32 (49.34) 17:23.58 (50.26) 18:13.12 (49.54) 19:02.79 (49.67) 19:53.05 (50.26) 20:41.70 (48.65) 21:30.97 (49.27) 22:20.64 (49.67) 23:10.03 (49.39) 23:58.68 (48.65) 24:47.18 (48.50)

Honestly I had no clue what pace I was on, I just went with something that I could sustain from perceived exertion perspective of a 5K running race. I've done enough of those to know what level I can push at

Day 2 was 200 fly, 100 IM, then a long break of 5 hours and the 400 free. The 200 fly felt like a complete disaster. My body was in knots from the day before pushing the end of the 1500m and not warming down properly. I barely slept all night. My goal was to hold 50 second pace per 50 for the first 100m and then go to 53-54 after that. I had done 1:42-1:48 in practice!!! Well that did not happen. I started at 49 and then from there it was downhill, although on a plus note 150-200m was faster than 100-150m:

2 Paul, Devashish 53 SO-M 3:30.00 3:38.93 25 49.21 1:44.74 (55.53) 2:41.96 (57.22) 3:38.93 (56.97)

Right after this was 100m IM. Between the 200fly and the day before drive plus events, plus lack of sleep, I was done by partway into the breast leg. Normally in training when I do fly+ back and then breast+free 50's or 100's the times of both are pretty evenNot this day:

7 Paul, Devashish 53 SO-M 1:40.00 1:42.22 12 48.28 1:42.22 (53.94)

Finally the 400 free after a long break. I had time to recover, do a proper warmup for it and go. My target was 6:20 even though I put in a seed of 6:30
I was unsure how to pace this and I think I took the middle 200m too slack.

6 Paul, Devashish 53 SO-M 6:30.00 6:14.04 13 43.47 1:31.29 (47.82) 2:18.95 (47.66) 3:06.66 (47.71) 3:54.29 (47.63) 4:41.46 (47.17) 5:28.31 (46.85) 6:14.04 (45.73)

Well the field was not stacked at all, but you have to show up and race to get anything and I improved most of the events a bit and did not get any DQ's. First hardware in sport since Podium 3 years ago this weekend at Wildflower 2015, so I am taking it no matter how it comes, considering I still can't walk across a room like a normal human

Last edited by: devashish_paul: May 6, 18 17:43
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well done Dev

I you want my opinion, I really like how you paced the 400. that's what I want to see, the first 50 should be the fastest, the last 50 second fastest and everything else swum very consistently. I like that swim better than your 1500, where your pace bounced around a bit. You want to get to the point where your pace is within 0.5 or so each 50. It's not bad, mind you, because the overall trend in splits was in the right direction with the negative split, it's just inconsistent.

Also, you were 4-5 secs per 100 or so quicker in the middle of the 400 than the middle of the 1500, which is right around where you want to be.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Well done Dev

I you want my opinion, I really like how you paced the 400. that's what I want to see, the first 50 should be the fastest, the last 50 second fastest and everything else swum very consistently. I like that swim better than your 1500, where your pace bounced around a bit. You want to get to the point where your pace is within 0.5 or so each 50. It's not bad, mind you, because the overall trend in splits was in the right direction with the negative split, it's just inconsistent.

Also, you were 4-5 secs per 100 or so quicker in the middle of the 400 than the middle of the 1500, which is right around where you want to be.


OK thanks for that info. Now I just need to get all those paces down by 5 seconds per 100m across the board LOL! I will have a chance to see how I excute the 400m in 2 weeks. The 1500m, I will have to wait till next year unless they decide in Calgary to cave and allow people from Ontario and Nova Scotia who just did their 1500m this weekend, but sounds pretty unlikely they will waive the 28 April deadline for having a 1500m.

PS. I should add, that those laps on the 1500m where I was slower than 50 seconds, I either lost concentration on my wall push off was less forceful or streamlined. I think it was almost like a bike TT where your power drops not because you are in distress, its more that you momentarily slack of a touch and don't realize it and being in a slower heat you're just going solo as the other guys are way faster or way slower....once you're sub 20, all you guys are marking each other!
Last edited by: devashish_paul: May 6, 18 19:12
Quote Reply
Re: ST Virtual Swim Meeting April-June Edition [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm home from USMS Nationals. Lots of thoughts circulating in my head, but I'll try to keep it to a novella instead of a full blown novel.

Thursday, 1000y freestyle.
My "A" race for the weekend. I really wanted to swim the 1650, but failed to get a qualifying time this season so the 1000 is my consolation. If you'd have asked me 4 weeks ago what I thought I'd do rested, shaved, tech suited, and in a "fast pool," I'd have said ~12:10-12:15. But I had some hints in my taper that I might actually be in store for something even a bit quicker. In the race, I caught as much of a draft as I could from the 19 year old member of the Butler University Women's Swim Team who was in the lane next to me, and beat even my "best case scenario" expectation with a 11:55. That ended up being enough for a 5th place finish in my age group. All the gory split details can be found here. My only regret is that second to last 50. I went to a 4-beat kick, expecting it to be an incremental step up in speed before the final sprint. It actually ended up being my slowest 50, and probably cost me 4th place as I was only 0.30 seconds back.




Friday, 200y freestyle
This is the event I've done the least amount of preparation for this season. My PBSHS (Personal Best Since High School) is a 2:08.72, but I haven't raced it in a couple years. Early in the tune-up process, my USPRT set paces are suggesting I'm not gonna match that. But things started to come together right as I was getting ready to taper. Suddenly I was setting new sustained set pace times ~0.5 seconds a 50 quicker, suggesting I should set a new PBSHS in this event by about 2 seconds. After my Thursday swim, however, I was expecting a bit more. And I got it, going 2:04.94 and finishing 16th. My 50 splits were 29.20, 31.47, 32.36, and 31.91. I hung the turn at the 175, or I'd have probably gone two or three tenths faster on that last 50. As in the 1000, that one small mistake cost me a position, as I was only 1/100th of a second out of 15th. The video, should you be so inclined to watch, is here. (Fast Forward to 4:34:00; I'm in lane 3, 3rd from the bottom).


Saturday, 100y freestyle
A staple for me; sometimes my A event, sometimes my B event, but something I work on every season. Also a staple event for roughly half the world, apparently, as there were 70 entrants in my age group, alone! My PBSHS for short course yards is :56.42, although 3 years ago I went 1:03.50 long course which "translates," according to a popular conversion tool, a :55.76. That comp was also tapered/shaved/tech-suited, so I wasn't expecting to beat it by much. But I was feeling pretty confident, after two good swims, that I could go mid 55's. The seed times in my heat are all between 55.9 and 56.9, so it should be a tight race. By now, pretty much everybody has swum at least one event, so it's possible to scout who's outswimming their seed time and who's not. I determine that I can and probably should win the heat. I won't be chasing anybody here, I'll be swimming my own race. Last time I swam this, I balked and took a breath in the last 5 yards. Ended up 1/100th of a second off a PBSHS. Lesson learned, I'm not doing that again. My strategy for this race is to go no-breath, straight-arm, 50-free-effort for the last 15 yards. I expect some guys to be out faster than me, but I plan to close faster and hopefully swim them all down. I get off the blocks quickly enough, but I don't get my hands quite all the way together before I hit the water. My immediate thought was "there goes my race," but it ended up not costing me nearly as much as I thought it would as I broke out more or less even with the pack. As expected, a few got out ahead of me. I had the reserve to execute the planned final surge, however, and was first to the one wall that mattered. I wasn't blown away by my time of :55.45 (splits 26.93/28.52), but I was satisfied with another PBSHS. It ended up being a 27th place in a very deep field.

Video (Fast Forward to ~3:16:30. I'm in lane 3, 3rd from the top):





Overall, it was a great meet for me. 3 races, 3 PBSHS, and an objective 4 years in the making achieved. ~4 years ago, 50 lbs overweight, I finally made some real changes to my diet and started working out. At first it was biking, but I eventually found my way back to the pool after a 27 year layoff from the sport. It wasn't long before the competitive juices started flowing, and I started researching USMS Nationals. I set an audacious goal of someday earning a top ten finish. I came up just short at Summer Nationals in 2015, finishing 11th place in the 400m free, :00.49 out of 10th. 2 years ago, I finished 6th in the 2 mile Open Water Cable National, but I didn't come close to executing my race plan and felt like I backed into that result. Illness, injury, family commitments, and work commitments conspired to delay my opportunity for redemption until this year, but, this time, I felt like I rose to the occasion, and swam a race worthy of the medal, fulfilling my vision from 4 years ago.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: May 14, 18 16:35
Quote Reply

Prev Next