Matt, have you been running every day? What is your body composition like? Those two issues are the most immediate things to work on if either or both are lacking. Third, work on your form. I have been a runner all my life but haven't really thought about form until the last few years. Now that I have made some changes, my endurance has increased significantly, wear and tear on my body has gone down, and as a result, my pace has increased considerably.

My typical week is a 3.5-5 miles X 3-4 times per week, with 8-16 miles on Saturdays. I recognize that to improve, my training intensity and frequency will need to increase.

As far as body composition, I'm 6' 2", about 185. I can drop about 10 lbs through increasing my running. Anything more than that has proven difficult.

I have to begin by saying that running 50Ks and 50 milers is not the optimal...or even close to the optimal way to increase the pace at which you run.

If you're close to a 5 hour marathoner you'll be a 12-14 hour plus 50 mile runner on trails. For a large part of those 14 or so hours you'll be walking.

Your increased mileage will most likely have a beneficial effect on your running, but if you concentrated on 10Ks and added some threshold work as opposed to a plain diet of LSD, you'd get a lot faster a lot quicker.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

I'm actually looking at this the other way around. I'd like to increase my pace because I'd like to increase the distance...not increase the distance in order to increase the pace. I don't know that that changes your answer though.

Focus on the training, not the possibilities from training.

In other words, if I may be so bold, train for the distance not the time?

i was only able to run (no cycling) for 3 months last year in my build up to im placid. so my coach at the time had me run 6 days a week for at least one hour every time and of course, one long run as well.
once i got over the fact that i was running double the amount than i had ever in my life i saw big improvements and run pr's in every event (run only to the ironman itself which i ran a good-for-me 4:03).
so my advice is frequency, frequency and more frequency.

I ran my first marathon in 4:56, with splits of something like 2:12 and 2:44. Better pacing got me down to a 4:14 in my next race. Starting to do some speedwork has got me down to a 3:47, and I think I can get down to a 3:30 or so next time. So, you can improve a fair bit if you want to put the time and effort into it.

I don't think that training for ultras is the best way to improve your speed. It's hard to increase mileage and to increase the number and intensity of your quality workouts at the same time. If your goal is to run faster, the best way to do this is more intense workouts. The only exception to this rule is if you are running marathon or longer races and your primary limited is your endurance. It sounds like you believe that your problem is lack of strategy more than lack of endurance.

May 1992: weight ~189; 3.5mile run in 22:45 (course A)
Sept 1992: weight ~172; 3.5 mile run in 20:24 (course B)
May 1993: weight ~172; course A 19:48

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I agree with SF Matt, training for the longer races will only result in a slower pace. The name of the game for the long hauls is endurance, using mostly st fibers and not running any faster than your aerobic pace. For the shorter distances, you start using a higher percentage of your intermediate and ft fibers that give you the spring that increases pace. Don't expect miracles for those long races, they are battles of attrition and pacing discipline, and the "fastest" runner doesn't always win. If you don't spent 98% of your time doing LSD for the 50k and 50miler, I think your training is very sub-optimal.

Sure...

Focus your mental energies where they should be.. on being consistent, training appropriately, being positive, etc..
Time goals will almost always mess with your head.

What are your goals? Do you want to "increase the pace" of your marathon races? Do you want to increase the pace of your triathlon running?

If you want to do either of the above, I think that you are looking in the wrong direction - you need to look shorter not longer - for a race focus. If you have run a few marathons and you want to drop your marathon time, what I would suggest is to take 6 - 12 months and focus on running your absolute best times in the 10K and/or 1/2 marathon. I will almost gaurantee you that if you do that right, you will come back and run a HUGE marathon PR.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

My goals are these, in this order:

1) I want to run longer

2) I want to run faster

What I'm getting from everyone one is that you can't really train for both at the same time.

When did you set these goals out?!

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

If you mean when would I like to accomplish them, I'd say that I'd like to see improvements in both by the end of the year.

You were gaining from both the increased volume and the increased frequency. Many triathletes go out and get these nice balanced programs drafted up for them with 2 - 3 work outs in each sport each week. That's great for time managment and getting you going. However, if you REALLY want to improve in one sport 2 - 3 work outs a week is not enough overload. You need to do that activity 5 - 6 days a week and do that for several months. That's why with cycling and running - the two more important sports in triathlon, it is often a good thing to take six months and just run or just cycle, with a minimum of the other sports - your performance gains will be substantial!

Strange, but as in your case, it often takes an injury for people to figure this out and break out of the mold!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

No, no, when did you think of them...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Sometime during my marathon on Sunday. Why?

I wanted to see if these goals were serious or just flavour of the week.



Anyway, if you really want to accomplish these goals, listen to Fleck, it's not all that complicated. Amazing what hard work and consistency can do.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Thanks. You're a great person.

so fleck, hwo would you schedule a regular week? most working stiffs (like myself) have a very limited time in which to train, so while i could run 6X a week, i couldn't do that in addition to cycling 6X/wk and swimming. i understand you may recommend doing a run or cycle focus for several months but what about run a focus week followed by a cycling focused week, etc?

Matt, I believe that you are not running nearly enough to substantiate a mileage increase. Most well respected coaches would not suggest that your long run be over 30% of your weekly mileage and that mileage increases should not be added in more than 10% increments after spending at least three weeks at current mileage. Your long runs are currently 42% of your weekly mileage.

I believe your goals are achievable and that you will do just fine if you add miles slowly and steadily. Mileage alone has lead to huge time improvements for me. I am currently running between 30-40 miles a week. I hope to get to 50. My suggestion is to get yourself a book written by a world class coach such as 'The Daniels Running Formula' by Jack Daniels. The book will give you the insight needed to add the mileage safely as well as guide you to proper pacing for your runs.

Good Luck!

I agree the timing is the challenge - hence those nice little well organized three sport training programs that just about everyone has.

I have seen the alternating week focus advocated. Not sure on that. I do know that the off-season is the perfect time to try a single sport focus. Do the other sports once a week and see how it goes.

With running, I find if you didn't come tpo triathlon with any run back ground running upping the run frequency can have a huge impact - and you don't have to run that much more. Just run whenever you get a chance - even if it is 20 minutes and a short 15 - 20 minute run after almost all bike rides.

My girlfriend did that this year, after some frustrating run performances the year before. She ran marginally more week to week - but got out and ran a minimum 4 - 5 days/week. She dropped her stand-alone 1/2 marathon time to 1:26 and ran a 3:30 marathon split in her A Ironman race at the end of the season( with an overall time of 10:03). It works.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

strides mate...

these are a very effective, simple, non risky way to improve your efficiency a lot, and that do not require you to suddenly run 100mi a week...

3-4 times a week...go from 4x30'' to 10x30'' strides, holding form...

preferably on soft surface.